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I am thinking about building a 10mm 1911 with Wilson Combat. How many rounds do they hold? What are the ballistic and functional pros and cons of each? Lack of ammo for 10mm could quickly be made up for it the ballistics are superior. Not sure if that round would feed inheritly more or less reliable than a .45?
 

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The 10mm mag was originally designed to hold eight rounds versus the .45ACP designed originally to hold seven. In 10mm you can get nine round mags the way you can get eight rounders for your .45ACP.

The 10mm basically uses a bullet weight range from 135gr to 200gr versus
(typically) 180gr to 230gr for the .45ACP. The 10mm is typically a couple of hundred FPS faster than the .45ACP with a good deal more energy. This is where you should google "10mm ballistics" and other rounds to compare it to.

The 1911 was designed for .45ACP and of course that is the optimal round for the platform but the 10mm does very well from a reliability standpoint and is not far behind the .45ACP in that regard (unlike the ten's shorter .40S&W sibling).

The best nutshell summarization I have heard was something to the effect of
"the .45ACP will do everything that the 10mm will do, the 10mm just does it out farther" referring to the higher energy and velocity the 10mm has out at further distances. I believe Colonel Jeff Cooper said this.
 

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I am far from being a ballistics expert, so will take PShooters info as truth. In that light, the reason for wanting a 10mm becomes relevant and I am particularly glad this thread was started. I have been mulling over the idea of a 10mm pistol myself, but wondering if good idea or not. In my case - not. My pistols are just for self-defense. If the threat is too far away for the 45, there will be other options for getting out of trouble.
 

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The 10mm can pack almost twice the energy of the .45 ACP.

The standard original 10mm loading of a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps packs 656 foot pounds of muzzle energy.

The standard .45 ACP loading of a 230 grain bullet at 850 fps packs 368 foot pounds of muzzle energy.

A .45 ACP loading of a 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps packs 444 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
 

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I am far from being a ballistics expert, so will take PShooters info as truth. In that light, the reason for wanting a 10mm becomes relevant and I am particularly glad this thread was started. I have been mulling over the idea of a 10mm pistol myself, but wondering if good idea or not. In my case - not. My pistols are just for self-defense. If the threat is too far away for the 45, there will be other options for getting out of trouble.
Yep. The 10mm is great for hiking where you may want to plink with a flatter trajectory or may need the extra energy for increased penetration on a dangerous animal. My .45ACPs are my city / carry guns and while I'm not worried about over-penetration with either caliber I believe the .45 is plenty adequate for self defense. In two 1911 platforms of equal weight I would prefer the faster follow up of the .45ACP to the 10mm. Of course you could carry lighter 10mm loads, but then, you have a .40S&W and I prefer a fatter bullet myself, anyhow.

If one owns a 10mm 1911, I believe they should also have at least one other similarly configured 1911 in another caliber, be it a 45ACP, 40S&W or 9mm just so they can afford to practice that much more. Always have a gun that takes Walmart ammo (who said that, Hilton Yam I think?). I order from Georgia Arms or reload but I still get behind on having enough 10mm around all too often. Buying 10mm locally is a very expensive option normally.
 

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Both should feed reliably since they both use about the same oal. Tracy
 

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I've standardized on 10mm for my carry guns. I have a 1911 commander length in 10mm and a Glock 29.

The .45 ACP is great for self defense. I chose 10mm for its ".357 Mag" like ballistics and versatility.

If I drop below 1K of practice rounds, I order another thousand from Georgia Arms. I use Double Tap 10mm for carry and have several thousand rounds of that.
 

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Ballistically, the 10mm AUto will shoot flatter especially past 50 yards
down range although at that range it's not a defensive shot eh?

Double Tap more or less started with loading 10MM AUto to it's
potential, those of the big 4 - Win Rem Fed and Speer not so much.
Double Tap 10MM AUto and .45 ACP were priced the same last I checked
DOuble Tap prices.

FWIW - Double Tap
1911 5" Bbl.
.45 ACP 185 gr. Bonded JHP 1235 FPS / 616 Ft Lbs
.45 ACP 200 gr. Bonded JHP 1125 FPS / 562 Ft Lbs
.45 ACP 230 gr. Bonded JHP 1010 FPS / 521 Ft Lbs
Glock 20
10MM AUto 135 gr. Nosler JHP 1600 FPS / 747 Ft Lbs
10MM AUto 155 gr. JHP 1475 FPS / 750 Ft Lbs
10MM Auto 200 gr.Contrl Exp JHP 1250 FPS / 694 Ft Lbs

Whether you attribute effectiveness to the Kinetic energy i.e.
Ft Lbs or something else is up to the reader and the subject of
endless threads. or the LIght and fast or Slow and heavy
Momentum schools of thought that argued subject of
stopping power.

Randall
 

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I've shot the Double Tap 10mm stuff but never tried the .45ACP.
Those are impressive numbers on the .45 that surpass my Golden Saber +P
185grs by quite a bit. Thanks for the info Randall.
 

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I've standardized on 10mm for my carry guns. I have a 1911 commander length in 10mm and a Glock 29.

The .45 ACP is great for self defense. I chose 10mm for its ".357 Mag" like ballistics and versatility.

If I drop below 1K of practice rounds, I order another thousand from Georgia Arms. I use Double Tap 10mm for carry and have several thousand rounds of that.

What recoil spring weight do you use in a 10mm Commander?

I really love my CCOs and started to drool when I saw that Fusion markets a 10mm CCO. The biggest problem is I don't like calibers in an Officers frame that are not common enough to have an abundance of reliable magazines manufactured. That is where a Commander 10mm shines since there are tons of good Gov't model 10mm mags on the market.
 

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Shooting both 10mm and .45 back to back can make the 10mm seem like quite the barn-burner, but consistent practice with full-power loads will acquaint you with the recoil and you won't notice it. I have one 10mm for occasional town carry and for woods carry. I like the slow-n-heavy school of thought, but even the heaviest-bullet 10mm loads in 200 gr. are quite fast. The reason I don't carry it all the time is the fact .45 makes a bigger hole and has proven effectiveness (though it's no rifle) works well and the bonded Golden Sabers 230 gr. are much easier to find and much easier on the wallet. I reload for both calibers, so practice ammo isn't that hard to come by.
 

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Although the 10mm may be one of the most versatile auto pistol rounds (as it can be handloaded with rounds as light as 135 gr at 800 fps, or 200 gr at 1200 fps), in my opinion, when loaded with ammo suitable for most folks for defensive/ccw/ street use, (155 gr JHP at 1300 fps, 180 gr JHP at 1000-1100 fps, 200 gr JHP at 1000 fps), there is little to no reason to choose it over/ahead of the .45 ACP.

Many claim they can shoot 200 gr/1200 fps 10mm loads as fast as they can shoot the .45 ACP, and if so, great. But IMO, the .45 ACP is unmatched in it's power (bullet weight, caliber, velocity)/controllability ratio, especially in a single stack 1911 where the 10mm gives but one extra round.
 

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pShooter -

My bob-tailed, commander style 10mm 1911 is a full custom job. I spec'ed DT 180gr ammo so that the gunsmiths could match the recoil spring and firing pin spring strengths. The Wolff recoil spring is 24#. I need to ask what firing pin spring was used for future replacements.

For comparison sake, I should mention mine had the frame milled and fitted with a ramped barrel at Bar-Sto. May not matter, but I'm putting that out there in case it does.

I have three Wilson 9-round and four 8-round Metalform magazines. I removed the sticky rubber bumpers on the Metalforms and had the bases re-drilled for smaller smooth bumpers. A gunsmith tweaked the gun to work with all of them.
 

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Thanks harrygunner, that sounds very sweet! I am a whore for several gunsmiths as I seem to get most everything I buy tweaked and your pistol sounds like a very nice 10mm carry gun.
 

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I agree with everything said except that a .45 should feed better then a 10mm.

While I'll admit I'm no expert, a 10mm has the same OAL, but a narrawer diameter giving it less contact with everything in the pistol so easier to direct. Someone tell me if I'm wrong. but please explain why, this is just a theory.

I know .40s don't run so well but I've seen .40 brass loaded out to 10mm length so it feeds like a 10mm but ejects like a .40. Seen one of these set ups on a jr master IPSC shooter around here. Supposedly he's never had a jam with this version of the pistol (I think its his second one) he said it feelt "off" with the standard length .40 and he wasn't confident it would never malfunction on him so he switched to the longer version. at 50k a year, I think they are onto something.
 

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Rocan, you may be referring to my quote earlier?

"The 1911 was designed for .45ACP and of course that is the optimal round for the platform but the 10mm does very well from a reliability standpoint and is not far behind the .45ACP in that regard (unlike the ten's shorter .40S&W sibling)."

I phrased it this way out of respect for the fact that the 1911 platform was designed over a century ago for the .45ACP round and has built a track record possibly a few gazillion rounds more than the 10mm has had a chance to build so far. In reality, the 10mm may be as reliable or better in the 1911 (only regarding feeding bullets into the chamber), I think a group of gunsmiths could answer that one better than most here could.

I have always pictured the relatively "stumpy" .45ACP as having a reliability advantage due to it's girth, or, it's length to width ratio but you bring up a good point. While I don't know purely from the perspective of feeding rounds off of the magazine into the chamber, I have heard from more than one gunsmith their opinion of the fact that the 10mm does push the parameters of the basic design of the 1911 when it comes to the timing and lock-up issues which also translates into reliability. It is similar to when you get into short barreled 1911s; they have come a long way in making them reliable but the 5" 1911 .45 ACP may always be the the one that runs the longest without changing springs or wearing out components since that was the intended platform. A 10mm is definitely harder on components and springs.
If you could only afford one really nice 1911 that you want to use a lot and still hand down for generations, a .45ACP 1911 will have the longevity and higher round count advantage. 10mm is a much higher pressure round than the 45 is and harder on the gun. Nothing is free.

My Delta Gold Cup was a jam-o-matic until I had a reliability job performed on it by my gunsmith but that could have happened with any caliber from any manufacturer and I can't blame the 10mm over my isolated experience.
 

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I may be simplifying things here but that's what I do. Either one will do the job. Carry what you are comfortable with and will practice with.

As an aside to PShooter, my Delta Gold Cup only jammed when I had a failure to extract which was taken care of with tweaking the extractor or replacing the one that broke after several thousand rounds since 1991. I would not hesitate to take it into serious situations but that's just me.
 

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I too have pretty much standardized on the 10mm for both personal carry and handgun hunting purposes. I also have .45's and do not feel undergunned by any stretch when I do carry them for self-defese.

I always get a chuckle when the this-vs-that debate comes up. People have been killed dead on the spot with single .22LR shots and others have been hit multiple times with the big boys and lived to fight again another day.

Either one should suit you well provided you make good choices in ammo. I think the recoil issue is a mute point because in a gunfight where both you and your opponent are moving, I highly doubt anybody is going to miss that 1 or 2/10th's of a second between shots if you're shooting some nuclear loads. For one thing, your target is moving and for another, you have to weigh the quickness of your follow-up shots with your assessment of a continuing threat.
 

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I would think its a good idea to be a reloader with the 10mm (?)

Do most 10mm,1911s have a ramped bbl?

I've never shot one/ignorant.
 
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