1911 carry questions

Like so many weight related issues, the actual problem is problem much less about the physical weight than about how that weight is carried and distributed.

I carry a full-sized, steel 1911 and usually like to have two spare mags on the best as well. I use a Milt Sparks VersaMax-2 holster that spreads out the weight and produces a low, wide lump on the belt instead of a tall, narrow lump produced by holster with the loops directly over the gun. The loops of the holster should match the size of the belt. This will keep the ride more secure.

Next, you should have a belt that is appropriate for carrying a gun. I use 1 1/4" belts and I like those that are made for guns as they are usually a litte thicker. A thicker, wider belt will not dig in like a 3/4" thin dress belt. Having mags, a phone, and/or knife on the belt on the opposite size helps to balance out the ride.

Personally, I have no understanding of people's claims that wearing a full-sized gun with an aluminum frame is all that significantly different than a full-sized gun with a steel frame. Yes, they are probably several ounces different, but I don't seem to have the nerves on my hips to notice. I have read where people claim back pain and such, but that is all foreign to me.

Contrary to the popular saying attributed to Clint Smith that a gun should be comforting, not comfortable, I disagree. If you are carrying a gun and it is not comfortable, then you need to re-evaluate your gear decisions. There is no reason that a gun cannot be carried comfortably. I think of this much like dress shoes. For many, dress shoes are to look good, not feel good. If your shoes don't feel good, then you made a poor purchase decision.

Just like packing a backpack for remote camping, the amount of the load is important, but more important is how the load is carried.

Good luck to finding your happy place with your gun on your belt.
www.miltsparks.com

Dear Charlie,

This is a very good question.

It seems people are just different on this subject. Some folks can handle the wieght, and others simply cannot. There are many factors that go into this like, your build (are you fat?), and your state of health.

The all steel Government does make for a heavy combat load. Good suspenders can help. It is said that, a man who wears a belt and suspenders is a "cautious man"
I often use "contractor grade" suspenders from a company called "Hold-Up". They will not EVER slip off! I highly recommend them.

People, who can carry an all steel government, often don't carry for extended periods of time, or they just don't understand how much a gun can bug some people, i.e. they are one of the people who can physically manage it.

I personally had to slip off the all steel Government, after it nearly drove me insane from the wieght. I'm now happily doing the High Power thing. The gun itself is not that much lighter, but it carries more rounds. Thus, I carry only one spare mag..
You need to consider not just the wieght of the gun, but the total combat load, i.e. spare mags, knife, back-up gun, flashlight, ect..

Too, as Double Naught noted, the type of rigging you use can make an enormous difference. I was able to carry the Government model, and all the other stuff I deemed necessary, when I used a flimsy belt. But, when I switched to a real, double thick, el stiffo, gun belt, the Government was too much. The stiff belt didn't allow the weight to distribute. I ended up considering the double thick gunbelt essential, so I kept it, and ditched the .45.
Heresy, I know.

My suggestion would be to take your Glock and really load up w/ as heavy a combat load as you can create. Carry two spare mags. and a flashlight, a heavy folding knife, and a backup gun in your front pocket, if you can manage it. (You can stuff .45auto rounds into a .38/.357 bianchi speed strip for more wieght in your back pockets. I used to carry 12 spare rounds of .45 this way)
Try to duplicate the combat load you would be carrying with a .45. For example, a loaded Government wieghs 44 ounces (a LW Commander is ~ 38 oz. loaded), a spare mag. 8 ounces loaded, a sure fire 6P about 6 ounces, a knife 6-8 ounces, ect.. Most Government .45 users are packing over 72 ounces (that's 6 pounds!) of combat gear on thier belts. That's a lot to ask of a man , in my opinion.

So, duplicate this load w/ your current carry gun. Then, carry it for at least 3 months. By the end of that time you should have a pretty good idea if you are up to 6 pounds of gear, or not.

Hope I haven't discouraged you. I love the Government .45 !!! It's just for me, and my situation, it proved to be just too close to the edge of what I could manage, day in and day out.
This is why I think Colt needs to look seriously at making this gun lighter, if they want to really dig into the growing CCW market. Perhaps, titanium and scadmium will provide some help in this regard. I dunno.

The 1911 .45 is a great gun. No doubt about that. I think you are on the right track in thinking about switching from your Glock to a 1911 stle gun. That is exactly what I did last year, myself, after 4 years of packing a Glock 19 (occasionally a 26), 16 hours a day. (Though, as I mentioned, I am now happily doing the High Power thing)

Best of luck,
and let us know what you discover!
Elsy

Originally posted by charleym3:
Weight! Even if I got an alloy frame Commander length 1911, it's still a heavy thing.

Click to expand...

Do you necessarily need a LW Commander? Why can’t it be an Ultra Carry Kimber or a LW Colt Officers size model?

So, how does one minimize the effect? Or do you just learn to live with it. BTW, I'd prefer to carry IWB.

Click to expand...

A quality holster, belt, and proper fitting clothes make all the difference in the world. If you like an IWB, make sure your pants are not overly snug with the holster and gun in place. Don’t accept the holes in your belt as it comes from the maker; add holes until it is comfortable for your particular body. Make sure you carry behind and above the iliac crest.

There is also the factor of accumulated tolerance. New police recruits hate the feel of body armor. We make them wear their armor every second from day one in our particular academy out here in California. Physical training, runs, defensive tactics, it doesn’t matter, that vest is on them every second. By the time they are done with the academy they have accumulated a tolerance for the armor and they don’t even notice it. The more you wear your gun in a proper rig with proper clothing the more you will become accustomed to it.




[This message has been edited by Patrickl (edited 11-21-2001).]

elsworth makes a good point regarding some people simply not being able to handle the weight for various reasons. I assumed you to be a healthy individual with no serious medical issues or back issues.

Part of the issue of carrying deals with where you carry it. You may be one of those 1 in a Million folks that will like using a shoulder holster setup and find it practical. Or, you may want to carry IWB by not be able to do so in a comfortable manner due to body shape, fat, or lack of fat. I find my full-size snugs in nicely to my spare tire. It is secure and does not shift. So when I have the gun in the correct location, things are fine all day long.

You may find that you have to change your pants to a different size or cut. I find that when carrying loads that I prefer pants/jeans with the two belt loops in the back (not just one) and generally the more that are present all the way around, the better. Belt loop spacing can be critical. For my OWB holster, on two pairs of pants, a belt loop must be between the two holster loops. On my other pants, the holster rides between two belt loops. On a couple of pairs I got rid of, none of the loops allowed me to carry with that holster in a comfortable position.

I have three sizes of guns, the smallest being a Kimber Ultra Elite (Officer's size) with an aluminum frame and the gun weighs 25 oz, empty. My heaviest is a full-sized government model that weighs 45 oz empty with the tungsten guide rod. Either way, loaded we are looking at 2-3.25 lbs. If you are really sold on the 1911 and are worried about weight, consider the other stuff you have hanging on your belt and in your pockets. Got a cell phone, pager, PDA, leatherman tool or other sheath knife, pocket knife, a wad of keys on a key ring, or anything else? Do you need all that junk on your belt or in your pockets? Chances are, you are carrying around crap you don't need all the time to be with you. Just like with an airplane, you are limited to X amount of weight. If you want more ordnance payload, then you got to get rid or other items.

In other words, the decision of how and what to carry can be aided by suggestions, but you really have to make decisions on a very personal basis that will include gear choices, clothing choices, and even behavior as well since carrying a gun will limit certain activities (such as a quick game of touch football).

elsworth, you are right. I can carry around a full-sized government model and it does not bother me. I find it amazing when people can't carry 3 lbs. There may be good reason for it in some cases, such as medical/back issues, but generally from what I have seen, it is people who don't know or can't take the time to properly match gun, holster, belt, and clothing all together. Part of the problem with that is that if you buy the wrong holster, stores don't want to take them back, so you get stuck with the wrong holster. It really can be like wearing shoes that don't fit properly.

I agree that a good, well-fitting holster and gun belt rig is essential to packing iron for long periods of time. I pack a G-19 and a G-26, a Cold Steel xtra-large tanto folder, a Surefire 6P, and two magazines every day for at least 10-12 hours. When I go home, I change over to a full-size 1911 in a Burns/Alessi GWH IWB holster and a spare magazine on the same Sparks or Davis 1.5" belt. I'm 6'0, 210 lbs. w/ a 36" waist. (Call me Gumby, but smile.)

A good alternative 1911 is the Wilson KZ-45. They make a compact version too. 10 or 9 + 1 rounds, and much lighter than the steel or aluminum frames. Both sizes are now available with stainless-steel slides and internals. They are just as thin as the metal 1911s, but a little blocky on the front strap - like a Glock or H&K.

I recently purchased a full-size stainless KZ and am extremely pleased. My original plan was to use it for IPSC Limited 10, but it is so reliable and accurate that I'm thinking about carrying that instead of my Protector. The Compact looks very attractive, too.