[shamster]

I keep hearing and reading that if you shoot and carry an HK P7, that is the only gun you should be carrying, due to the unique manual of arms. Why is this so? I mean, I understand that with the P7, you have to be careful to keep your finger outside the trigger guard at all times, and you will need a firm grip to ensure that the squeeze cocker is properly depressed. However, with any other gun I shoot, I make sure that my finger is off the trigger, and that I keep a firm grip.
Any comments?

 

[Roshi]

I had a P7 for some time. It was a carry gun along with a 1911 full size.

It is fairly easy to switch back and forth. However, I'm now a firm believer that your carry guns should all be the same in manual of arms because under stress you don't want to be fumbling.

One bad P7 habit picked up from using 1911's is to rack the slide by placing your left hand on top of the slide with thumb towards the rear sight. Works OK on a 1911 but on a P7 your thumb can trip the take down button and you'll end up with the your pistol in a least two pieces.

I evenually sold my P7. Nice craftsmanship, accurate, reliable. However, it is too heavy and large for a 9 mm carry gun. There are lots of more size efficient pistols on the market for concealed carry.

That's my opinion any how.

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When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword at his side.

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Agreed. The P7 is a huge hunk of metal for a puny little nine-mil. Besides, what's the deal with "gas delay"? Sounds like a medical condition that comes from drinking too many beers on top of a gut full of day-old pizza.

Callahan

[This message has been edited by Inspector Harry Callahan (edited 10-03-2001).]

 

[GLV]

With about 20 years experience with the P7, the gun has no equal except for the 1911.

No more reliable or accurate gun exists. I use the P7 as a left hand gun, with the 1911/BHP right hand guns.

Typical of the net, lots of EOEs, never owned one or shot one, but still an expert. Read all about it in one of the gun rags. GLV

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Forgive me for being an "EOE" (whatever the hell that is) but I honestly don't see the point in hauling a heavy P7 around for the capacity it gives. With the same weight and size a guy can carry a REAL gun. I freely admit that I've never handled, shot, or fondled a P7.

I have no time for novelty items.

Callahan

 

[Scooter]

There's not that much to adjust to. I haven't shot my USP in a while, but I normally switch between my Para and my P7 every other week between competitions (IPSC and IDPA).

It's not that big of a change for me. Since I already grip any gun with a firm grip, the squeeze cocker is not an issue. As for the thumb, since I ride the safety on a 1911, my thumb is in the same spot on the P7 even though there's no safety.

The only big change is when I switch to the 1911, I wish it had the same mag release as the HK's. On slide lock reloads on the P7, since you already ease up on the grip to hit the mag release, after changing the mag, gripping the gun into firing position will release the slide.

 

[P7]

I never heard of EOE but since I own a P7, that makes me pretty damn smart so I'm guessing it means "Expert on Everything"...and true, if you have never owned or shot one, you really can't comment with any validity...Having said all that, and carrying one full time, no gun shoots straighter, quicker and with less felt recoil in a 9mm. And I'd rather have 9 rounds of P7 than 17 from some spray and pray model...just my opinion since I'm only an expert on me...

 

[Tom Freeman]

P-7. Great pistol. I have owned and carried one for several years. I switched from an M-13 to an M-8 two years ago.

Switching back and forth from a 1911 is no problem. I actually don’t even notice it. The only thing I notice is the mag catch. More accurate than my $1500 bullseye guns.

Harry, you couldn’t be more off base.

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[Rosco Benson]

I used one of the early P7's (PSP) fairly extensively. It was a fine pistol...reliable and easy to use. The low bore axis pretty much negated what little muzzle flip a 9mm has.

The sole complaint I had was that, if one depresses the squeeze cocker (as in presenting the pistol to a firing position) and then does not shoot, the squeeze cocker makes a fairly loud "clack" when released.

These pistols also require a bit of thought in holster selection, as their slides are small and short and this results in the holstered pistol being a bit "top-heavy".

Rosco

 

[shane45-1911]

P7 is a great backup gun to a 1911. I don't find a problem switching back and forth either.

Accurate, compact, reliable......

PS - What IS an EOE ?

[This message has been edited by shane45-1911 (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[BB]

First of all, I've got a P7M8 so I'm qualified to post this. I've had it for 2 months and put 200 downrange so far. It points well, and has a decent trigger. It ejects the magazines out so hard you could use the mag release as a weapon in and of itself. I like the balance and the ambi mag release. BUT, the trigger is plastic. It's WAY over engineered in places it just doesn't need to be; more little springs in it than cheap watch. It's friggin heavy for an 8-round 9mm. It has more tool marks than any gun I have ever seen, the finish and details on my $150 East German Makarov are better than on this $1200 gun. And it gets ridiculously hot under the triggerguard after 50 or so shots. It isn't any more accurate than any other quality 9mm. Personally I think the only reason they are so highly regarded is because they say "Oberndorf" on the side.

[This message has been edited by BB (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[Electric_Armadillo]

Although In don't own one, I have fired a few. And I must be smart since I do own a couple of HK's

After firing the gun, I want one. I think that statement speaks for itself. Its accuracy is outstanding.

The P7M13 is a good weapon with a nice capacity. The M8 is a lot of gun with only 8 rounds. If you get the P7, get the M13, cuz if you're only gonna have 8 rounds, it might as well be 7+1 of .45 ACP.

GLV, nice comment keeping it as a left hand gun. Thats a great way to keep muscle memory.

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-Electric Armadillo-

 

[P7]

Not any more accurate than any other 9mm... Gotta disagree with you there... Plastic trigger? Actually it is plastic coated (over metal) so it doesn't get too hot when shooting. Don't like the springs? If you think the springs are unecessary inside the frame, just take 'em out...You seem to know more about engineering than the guys at Obendorf anyway...And I'm still looking for all those tool marks on mine but can't find 'em...

BTW, FYI, expensive, hand crafted watches have many springs..cheap watches just use a battery...

[This message has been edited by P7 (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[Scooter]

If you didn't like the sound when it decocks, you can always use the silent decock method. The semi-silent method is to move the slide back just a tad and release the decocker. The other way is to depress the lever between the decocker and the bottom of the trigger guard.

 

[BB]

Gee, taking my opinion of my gun a little personally eh?

I shoot the same groups with the P7 that I shoot with my CZ and P35. I noticed no mechanical accuracy difference, significant or otherwise, although it is easier to shoot accurately do to its good balance and decent trigger.

Springs: Open up a CZ, an Glock, a 1911, see how many little springs there are. Necessary in the P7? Yeah, if you design it that way.

Toolmarks: You don't have them on yours huh? Try taking it down and looking inside the slide, inside the frame, inside the mag well.

[This message has been edited by BB (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[El Roto]

I believe EOE stands for "Expert on Everything".

I've shot a P7 and found it to be very accurate and easy to shoot. I haven't handled one long enough to comment on the manual of arms. The one observation I can make is in regards to the squeeze cocker: Several times I squeezed it like a trigger, resulting in a "short stroke" misfeed. Once the owner showed me how to effectively bring the slide home, it worked without fail.

I think I'd love one as a backup/weakside weapon as others have mentioned. I can pull it out while I wing my empty .45 at the BG's head.

Steve "Hollywood Drill" G.

 

[Inspector Callahan]

Flame wars are fun to watch, but rarely do they accomplish anything. I've been "disqualified" from this one because I've never handled a P7. Terms like "squeeze cock" and "gas delay" are funny as heck. Sounds like a piece of Euro-curiosity instead of a serious fighting sidearm. Besides, it's overpriced, ugly, and underpowered caliber-wise.

A guy could afford a couple of decent revolvers or a semi-custom 1911 and still have some cash left over for leather and ammo. Anybody know why these P7s are so high priced?

 

[P7]

Well, tool marks inside don't really bother me...much like the insides of the oil pan on my car...As for the springs, if they were breaking or causing problems I would agree with you, but it is one of the most reliable autos ever made so really a mute point...but, to each his own....glad there is so much to choose from so we could all be happy...just trying to make sure the info spread is accurate in case others are thinking about getting one...

As for a squeeze cocker and gas retard system disqualifying it as a serious fighting gun...I'm at a loss..could you please explain why that is so...the gas system gives it a delayed blowback which aids in recoil control while still keeping a slim profile...the squeeze cocker makes it very safe, fast on target with no double to single action pull, and no need to deal with manipulating safeties...it also acts as a slide release..very cool feature...jam in a mag, squeeze, and you're good to go..also, if some BG gets your gun, it could give you precious time while he tries to figure out the manual of arms....(this has been proven when it save the life of a NJ trooper who had it taken away in a fight and got it back when the BG couldn't figure out how to fire it) I don't own a 1911 but I can apreciate them as great guns having fired many...and yes, I would feel beter with a .45 but the only ones I'm allowed to carry are Smiths (don't like 'em)and HKs (USPs are way to big and even the compact is almost twice as thick as the P7 and not very comfortable IWB)

[This message has been edited by P7 (edited 10-04-2001).]

 

[GLV]

After a certain point, accuracy is in the shooter. Ramson rest the stock P7, and the stock BHP, and the difference will be evident. GLV

PS EOE is 'Expert on Everything'.

 

[BB]

Originally posted by GLV:
After a certain point, accuracy is in the shooter. Ramson rest the stock P7, and the stock BHP, and the difference will be evident.

That is an unfair test, and inconclusive. The P7's barrel is mounted to the frame, so in a frame fixing mechanical rest like a ransom it will beat the P35. However, the sights are what is used to aim. If there was a mechanical vise-type rest that fixed to the slide, the P35 would win, since the barrel on the P35 is fitted to the slide (where the sights are) so the only way to properly test these two is on a bench, across sandbags, which I have done. The mechanical accuracy difference is negligable.