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An NRA 2700 match has three gun divisions with 90 shots fired.....each gun division follows the same format: slow fire at 50 yards, a National Match course, timed fire at 25 yards, and rapid fire at 25 yards. All shooting is done using only one hand.

The gun divisions are .22, Center fire of choice, and the .45acp division. To my knowledge, there has never been a restriction on using a 9mm for the centerfire division in Bullseye, but the 9mm was not very accurate until they started making barrels that allowed the 9mm round to headspace on the case mouth....which greatly enhanced accuracy.....a well built 1911 9mm has the potential to shoot tighter groups than a 1911 .45acp round at 50 yards.



To each their own, however, I always test my reloads for accuracy at 20-25 yards using some type of rest to eliminate human error..... I shot NRA Bullseye for over ten years and having very accurate ammo for 50 yard shooting was essential.....so we tested various .45acp loads and powder choices at 50 yards in a Ransom Rest to find the best shooting powder and bullet combination. It was not uncommon to find different lot numbers of the same brand of powder that did not shoot as well as a different lot # of the same powder. Once we found an accurate 50 yard powder choice we ordered 8 lb. kegs direct from the factory.....:)

My .38 super self defense gun will shoot a 5-shot group just under three inches from a sandbag rest at 50 yards. I have no idea what distance I may need to shoot to defend myself, however, I would rather have a very accurate handgun for ANY distance!
I once tested my .38 super using 125 gr. JHP bullets at 1,300 fps from the muzzle compared to my 1911 5" .45acp using 230 gr FMJ (hardball) ammo at a 100 yard USPSA target. All shots were fired from a sandbag rest and both guns had iron sights. Using the middle of the torso as the aiming point, the shots using the .38 super were at the bottom of the target, and the .45acp rounds did not hit the target.....so I stapled up two targets stacked on top of each other and repeated the test. The .45acp loads were on average 18" lower at 100 yards than the hot .38super loads.....the good news was the flatter shooting .38super loads all hit the target at 100 yards using a center torso hold..... If I were ever faced in a self defense situation, and the distance was greater than 50 yards, I would seek cover and use ANY rest available to prevent human error.....I know my gun and ammo is capable out to 100 yards......if I am up to the task! :rock:
Get an optic. That will make near any gun get hits at 100 with very little user effort, reason I argue ammo does't matter is because all my optic guns can hit a 4 inch plate every single time at 50 yards no matter if it's a glock, CZ, 1911, or FN. I use really cheap ammo to practice with too......

If I can one hand my open gun at a like of soup cans at 57 yards and hit all 7 I don't think ammo matters since I used/use steel case stuff often when camping and having fun with targets like that. I also wear a range finder to check what the distance to the entertainment item is.

However it takes way too long past about 30 yards for me to get a hit on an 8 inch plate outdoors in perfect like with an iron sight gun (can't exceed 1.75 from concealment, can't exceed 1.5 at 10 yards on a 2 inch square, those are my standards) so I do not realistically expect to get any sort of hits if both parties are moving unless I have an optic gun that allows me to ignore sight alignment and just stare at the goal. Irons are really horrid when you introduce movement on both end, I do not trust my ability to meet my standards if past 10 yards in a real gunfight.
 

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Their is a distance at which self defense is not considered valid. Even 50 yards is not close enough I believe. Not my opinion, you do need to be able to prove that you believed your life was in danger.
 

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Their is a distance at which self defense is not considered valid. Even 50 yards is not close enough I believe. Not my opinion, you do need to be able to prove that you believed your life was in danger.
+1000 - from a non-LEO, non-military perspective, it would be rather hard to demonstrate 'immediate threat to my life' from a "bad guy" half a football field away.
 

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There is a lot of wiggle room in your questions.
I would guess that a military 1911a1 would be less accurate due to the loose tolerances needed for interchangeability amoung various manufacturers.
That said I would guessimate 4-5" @25yards.
Present manufactured 1911's have tighter tolerances so I would guess 2-3"@25yards.
Custom guns would be one inch or less.
Just estimates.
 

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1911 Accuracy.....

I have been shooting 1911 and STI 2011 handguns for competition and fun for over 40+ years.

I know that when making reloads, there is usually a bullet and powder combination that provides optimal accuracy for that particular gun. When I chronograph the loads, it seems illogical, but sometimes a bullet and powder may have a higher standard deviation than the same bullet with a different powder that has a lower SD, yet the higher SD combination will shoot tighter groups!! That is why many competition shooters test their reloads in a Ransom Rest or off sandbags.....to find the optimal accurate load for that gun....

I know that having the most accurate load I can muster for my self defense guns is important to me. There is no distance requirement for self defense. The Florida laws simply state that a person may use lethal force if a person is in fear for their life.....whether it is 50 yards or further.....! Any time a person is threatening or actually shooting at you, whether 50 yards away in a shopping mall or outdoors hiking in the woods......a person has the right to defend themselves if they are in fear for their life...…

I have an S&W M&P 9mm Pro Series pistol. I tested it with factory ammo, and it shot OK.....about a 3" 5-shot group at 25 yards shot off sandbags. I started experimenting and reloading with different bullets and powder, and cut the group size in half....and with my reloads, it will now shoot 5 shots center to center in a 1.5" group off sandbags......and just for fun, I shot the same reloads at 50 yards off sandbags, it kept all the shots in a 3" circle.....and no flyers!

Over my 40 years of reloading, I have found that JHP bullet profiles usually shoot more accurately than FMJ round nose bullets..... For 9mm bullets used in competition, I like the accuracy and the price of 124gr. Precision Delta JHP truncated cone bullets.....when you order 2K bullets they are $88/1000 with free shipping. I like 124gr. Montana Gold JHP bullets, and they are slightly more accurate than the Prec. Delta bullets, but the only way to get the same price as the Precision Delta bullets is to purchase a case of 3,750 bullets which runs $360.00. If a person tries to order 1,000 bullets at a time of the same bullet, the price is $ .13 per bullet, while a case price is $ .096 per bullet.....while purchasing 2K bullets at a time from Prec. Delta with the same style and weight JHP bullet is $ .089 per bullet. For the action pistol shooting matches I shoot, it is not like shooting precision Bulleye at 50 yard slow fire, and more often than not, the shots seldom exceed .35 yards....and the cardboard targets have more generous scoring rings than Bullseye!:rock: When I make my own self defense ammo for my STI 2011 .38 super, I like and use either Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP bullets.....both are accurate JHP style bullets, and will perform and expand very well at the velocities I choose to shoot...…which is similar to a low end .357 magnum round.....:)
 

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I just bought a Tisas 1911A1 GI copy. Shot it with PMC FMJ 230 and some 200 gr LSWC target kids at 25 yards and it consistently grouped about 4”. This was strong hand supported not off a bench. Not bad I thought considering the micro sights. I did fix the trigger before I took it out. I dropped it from 7lbs to a pretty clean 4lbs.
 

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My Wilson Combat shoots under an inch at 25 yds with premium ammo that it likes and my closer to 70 than 60 year old hands shoot under a barn door at 25 yds no matter what the ammo. 😁
 

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10 shot group at 50 yards.....

My B-E 9mm's will shoot 10 shots into .75-1.00"@50 yards with Atlanta Arms Match ammo.
I would have to see it to believe it..... Most Bullseye 1911 9mm guns made by a custom Bullseye gunsmith may shoot a 1.5" five shot groups at 50 yards.....

What gunsmith made your 1911 9mm....?:confused:
 

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I would have to see it to believe it..... Most Bullseye 1911 9mm guns made by a custom Bullseye gunsmith may shoot a 1.5" five shot groups at 50 yards
Here you go....not mine but a good example test target below. This one belongs to a pistol built for a very talented shooter.

Not Atlanta Arms, but a very close version. The Gunsmith who built this pistol was the guy who developed the load and the match M9 that AA produced for the AMU originally when he was a gunsmith there. A good 9mm 1911 or M9 should be around 1” vice 1.5” for a 45 ACP if both are launching JHP. Can you get 1” 45 groups, sure. I have one. Harder than 9mm though.

 

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Custom 1911 for Bullseye shooting....

I have heard that KKM suggests the 1:24 twist for the 115 gr. bullets, and I have found the Hornady XTP is a great bullet...…. are most super accurate 1911 9mm guns using a 1:24 twist rate in their KKM barrels....?:confused:
 

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David Sams. With a 1 in 32 twist KKM barrel, using 115gr. XTP bullets.
Ding Ding Ding...Winner! Sometimes the 124 gr shoot better. It’s one or the other. HAP for target work are interchangeable.

Test target from the AMU barrel fixture from another member.

 

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I'm only as accurate as my experience allows me to be regardless of the gun, ammo, ect. Then, there's the inherent inaccuracy of the gut gun itself, only to add to my errors.
 

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+1000 - from a non-LEO, non-military perspective, it would be rather hard to demonstrate 'immediate threat to my life' from a "bad guy" half a football field away.
So, you're at a company picnic and all of a sudden you see everyone running down the hill away from the guy firing the AK, 50 yards away. You got your 1911 carry gun on you. Are you going to try to save lives? It's good to know what you and your weapon can do no matter how small the chance that you might need that knowledge.
 

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When I was shooting on the Army pistol team back in '71 I was able to keep 5 shot groups about golf ball sized with my Remington Rand at standard competition distances - one-handed shooting of course back then. Understanding that with age the remembered groups get smaller, the caught or lost fish bigger and the girls I kissed prettier.

Ammo? Whatever mil-surp crapola came out of the ammo bunker in North Carolina - lol

I always try to repost Hickok45's fine video on 'accuracy' when the topic comes up on forums -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVzSAm5VhfE&t=597s
During the same time frame I competed for the Navy. Might have crossed paths with you somewhere. Anyway, my armory accurized 1911 would hold the 10 ring at 50 yards one handed. It wouldn’t do it every time, but that was an operator problem. In a 300 point match, anything under 290 I considered to be a complete failure. 293, 294, pretty common. Anything higher was pretty rare. I knew guys that could shoot 300’s, but they had guns that were better tuned than what I had.
 

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I was on the team at Ft Bragg for reference.

Like they always say, it ain't the bow, it ain't the arrow...it's the archer.

I suspect every handgun out there is way more combat accurate than most any of us. And since few of us shoot bullseye competition, combat accuracy will more than suffice. Near 50 years later I have been able to maintain MOPP (Minute of Paper Plate) and most importantly MOD (Minute of Dead) accuracy with all my handguns.
 

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1911 9mm 50 yard groups.....

Like they always say, it ain't the bow, it ain't the arrow...it's the archer.
When you want to see a 9mm shoot a one inch 5-shot group at 50 yards in a Ransom Rest, you are testing the gun and the ammo.....and not the shooter....

First off, for any gun to have the intrinsic accuracy to shoot a one inch 5-shot group at 50 yards, the top Bullseye gunsmiths usually test the barrel in a barrel fixture....and usually build the gun around the chosen barrel.

I have no doubt that the 9mm cartridge will shoot best with a different twist rate than the standard 1:16 twist used in a 1911 .45acp barrel.....which is often shot with bullets that are 200+ grains, while "hardball loads" use a 230 gr. FMJ bullet.

Furthermore, most JHP bullet designs are more accurate than RN or lead bullets, and others have mentioned the KKM Precision 1:32 twist is very accurate with 115 gr. JHP bullets in the 1,200 fps muzzle velocity range.....:)
 

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So, you're at a company picnic and all of a sudden you see everyone running down the hill away from the guy firing the AK, 50 yards away. You got your 1911 carry gun on you. Are you going to try to save lives? It's good to know what you and your weapon can do no matter how small the chance that you might need that knowledge.
Your question doesn't have anything to do with accuracy of a 1911. The least accurate 1911 sold today will punch out a bad guy at 50 yds.
 
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