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1911A1 advice needed

C
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Hello to everyone. Nice site. Hope someone can help me out. Been here for a few days and noticed your interest in the WWII 1911A1s. Bought a Colt recently, but when researching serial numbers here, have discovered that it is a US&S frame with a Colt slide. The date of frame is 1943. The Colt slide does not have a serial number on the end(or anywhere else, that I can see). There is a stamped "P" on top of slide and a stamped "G" on the bottom of the slide over the ejector. Pistol came with 2 barrels, one a High Standard, one a Singer, and a "COLT 45 AUTO" magazine. Also, included was an original brass cleaning rod, a holster marked, "U.S." "Graton & Knight Co." "1943", and a box of ball amunition from the "Evansville Ordinance Plant" "Lot E.C. S-S25233.
Now, what the heck do I have??? Might add the slide and frame appear to have "worn in" together. Can not see any refinishing, just normal wear you would expect to see after 50 years. Disappointed that this is not a pure Colt, but the US&S makes it interesting.
Have a pic, but not sure how to get it on here. Thanks for your time, CEC
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dsk

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#2 ·
Are you sure it's a US&S frame? There were a few instances of Colt and contract guns being made using the same serial number range. To check the serial number of the Colt slide, you need to remove the firing pin stop plate and look there. Regarding the serial number on the frame, are the characters Gothic or are they Italicized? Colts until mid 1945 used Italicized serial numbers. Everybody else used Gothic numbers. If your serial number is Italicized then you have a Colt frame for sure.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 07-24-2001).]
 
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dsk

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#4 ·
Okay then, it's a US&S frame. The slide is a late Colt made in 1944 or 1945.

BTW which barrel are you using in the gun? I may be interested in buying the spare one off of you.

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
 
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C

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have the Hi-Standard on there now, but also have used the Singer. Both seem functionally identical. This pistol is a very good shooter and has never FTF or FTE. Is there any history for pistols pieced together? Is it possible this was built for someone or is an armorer's personal weapon? Where were these US&S pistols shipped? Or is there simply no information available? There also appears to be a blood stain on the front of the grip around the ring finger area.
 
dsk

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C

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the help! Identified barrels on dsk's 1911 link. (That link is what got me started on this.) Only speculation on my part about the blood on frame. The only part with any corrosion at all, and blood is very corrosive. A stain I've not seen on firearms before, but really don't know what it is, or what it isn't. cec
 
dsk

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I once saw a Luger in a gun shop that looked great from one side, but when I examined it the other side was badly pitted all over from blood staining. Obviously some GI's strange idea of a souvenir from the Great War.


So having seen blood pitting, I can tell you it eats metal for lunch. Rust pitting is fairly shallow and grainy inside the pits, but blood eats metal like it was doused in acid.

Don't worry about it. If it truly IS blood staining it simply means it saw some real use. Quite likely some GI got hurt during the fighting, and kept on shooting to spare himself from more fluid leakage (if you know what I mean).

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 07-25-2001).]
 
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C

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you dsk for all the feedback and for all the links. But still the question of what this pistol is and how it came into being is not answered. Most firearms have no "history", they are: "manufactured; delivered to a dealer; and sold to the consumer". I know absolutely nothing about USGIs, and maybe am asking for too much. For all I know, this pistol sold for $49.95 at the local hardware store in the 50's. Some opinions favor the US&S frames, and Singers, indeed seem to be RARE. Does anyone know how many Singer barrels were produced? (Ben, what is a US&S slide going for and where would I find one?)The mix of parts on this pistol just gets my curiosity up! Hope this isn't bending anyone's ear. Thanks for listening, cec
 
dsk

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#12 ·
As you correctly surmised, that gun could have gone just about anywhere in the last 60 years! The gun could have been mismatched at a military arsenal, as repair depots were known to simply pull everybody's guns apart, throw all the slides in one bucket and all the frames in another, etc., clean up the parts, then put everything back together mix n' match style. Second theory is that your pistol is a "gun show special" that was cobbled togther using surplus parts in somebody's garage. The fact is, you will never really know.

Hang on to that Singer barrel, as they only made as many as there were pistols (500), and somebody who has a rare Singer but with the wrong barrel would sell his soul to you for it! Either that, or if you want to sell it I can get in touch with my other collector friends and see what they will offer you for it.

Regarding finding a US&S slide, they turn up at gun shows and on auction sites like Ebay, Auction Arms and Gunbroker all the time.

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1
 
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C

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Greetings you guys! Whew, not sure of anything in this world, but can't detect any ground and polished areas. Just the single "P" on the barrel link thing(now that's technical!). The guy that had this pistol got it in the mid 70's from an older relative. Not sure if he even fired the thing. He was reluctant to sell, but had the wife/kid/house thing going and needed the cash. He seemed to treat the pistol with awe and respect. The box of .45s look almost new, and the cleaning brush is unused. Magazine is well worn. I know none of this stuff means anything by itself, just another piece of a puzzle.
Will check shows out for US&S slide. Once in a while, you can actually deal with those guys. Thanks again for your time.
 
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