[jswi1980]

I recently picked up this piece and have been trying to find some info / history on it.
It looks to be all original possibly not refinished. No armory rebuild stamps anywhere.
Serial number worries me due to it looking like a capital O vs a zero. Barrel has the HS and P stamps and looks used, but well cleaned/kept.
Has light crossed cannons stamp. FJA stamp was definitely struck off angle, has P stamp below trigger this same side. Has 3 on right side trigger guard.
Slide has the G stamp inside. P stamp on top by sights. Front of gun has typical holster wear, but not bad.
If more photos are needed, I can add more at a later time. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[dsk]

Altered serial number. Hard to say when it was done, but that sort of thing gives would-be buyers the creeps because the ATF can give the owner a really hard time about it.

 

[Electricmo]

Why has it been altered? That’s the big question. What else is faked?

 

[filson]

The pistol bears characteristics of a Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 Remington Rand. Early trigger, slide stop, Colt MSH (?) and a Type 3 slide. The Type 3 serial number appears altered

 

[whig]

Restamped serial number may not specifically be "altered" but it is curious! Nice pistol overall. So many strange variations out there.

 

[LDog]

Altered serial number. Hard to say when it was done, but that sort of thing gives would-be buyers the creeps because the ATF can give the owner a really hard time about it.

If that were mine, I would find it a new home ASAP.

 

[mkk41]

Possibly the original line numeral stamp in that position was misaligned or damaged and restruck by hand. Not unusual. Rem-Rand had a lot of minor issues with the No. ser.no. pistols. They shut down production to correct them and the numbering restarted with NO. . I recently dug out my Scott Meadows book on wartime production and the chapter on renumbered and oddities is very interesting. Your excellent pics show the pistols finish does not appear to be refinished as ya can still see silver in the ordnance crossed cannons mark. Ya just can't spot-fix parkerizing. The FJA inspector mark was handstamped, and never perfectly positioned or even. Some will say it's an illegal stamp, possible to get you to sell it to them cheap. Some collectors actually look for anomalies like this and will pay a slight premium.

 

[1saxman]

There has been significant work at the 'O' and there obviously was another number there originally. I cannot see this being done at RR, and if I'm right, the pistol is also a refinish by default. I also cannot agree that there is any bright steel showing in any mark, much less the Ordnance mark, so it appears to be a refinish in fact.

 

[dsk]

Possibly the original line numeral stamp in that position was misaligned or damaged and restruck by hand. Not unusual. Rem-Rand had a lot of minor issues with the No. ser.no. pistols. They shut down production to correct them and the numbering restarted with NO. . I recently dug out my Scott Meadows book on wartime production and the chapter on renumbered and oddities is very interesting. Your excellent pics show the pistols finish does not appear to be refinished as ya can still see silver in the ordnance crossed cannons mark. Ya just can't spot-fix parkerizing. The FJA inspector mark was handstamped, and never perfectly positioned or even. Some will say it's an illegal stamp, possible to get you to sell it to them cheap. Some collectors actually look for anomalies like this and will pay a slight premium.

I don't see any evidence of a refinish, and it is possible that the serial number didn't come out correctly and somebody fixed it. Or it may have been done later at an arsenal. Nobody knows. Prior to 1968 when it wasn't illegal to screw with the serial number on a firearm all sorts of things were done, for any number of reasons. Unfortunately now we have to deal with the ramifications of GCA '68 and worry about whether a firearm that may have been altered or renumbered decades earlier is now illegal to possess. ATF's "rule" is that no SN alteration is allowed on a firearm that was originally serialized by the manufacturer, no matter when it was done or who did it, unless ATF reviews and approves it. Of course we're also taking about an alphabet agency who told us that pistol braces were okay, then later changed their mind and told us they're not.

 

[Electricmo]

No government agency is going to harass anyone about that serial number unless it’s brought to their attention. This thread just exposed it for them. Oops…

 

[Scott Wilson]

I don't see any signs of sandblasting in the bottom of the serial number.

 

[Ben Reyes]

The Remington Rand is an Ithaca.

 

[dsk]

The Remington Rand is an Ithaca.

Good catch, Ben. Should've noticed the size of the M1911A1 US ARMY marking earlier. So the frame has technically been force-matched to the slide, putting it in the RR serial range.

 

[stan2]

Good catch, Ben. Should've noticed the size of the M1911A1 US ARMY marking earlier. So the frame has technically been force-matched to the slide, putting it in the RR serial range.

dsk,

Yes, it sure looks like an Ithaca frame,...so, just another "hot-potato".

dsk, if you can, post your old picture (examples) of the four different M1911A1 US ARMY roll-stamps. ?

Best Regards,

 

[Che]

Altered Serial Number. Most USGI pistols were never put in a database like NCIC.

1637198 for example is reported stolen.
1O37198 is not even in the database so it’s good to go.

Most LEOs are not gun enthusiasts or knowledgeable of Gun Laws. So altered or fake Serial Numbers will fool them. In the Academy they preach a handgun with a scrubbed Serial Number is what you want to seize as that is likely used or will be used in a mob or gang hit.

 

[mkk41]

Most LEOs are not gun enthusiasts or knowledgeable of Gun Laws.

I've heard of several firearms confiscated by police because of the US PROPERTY marking. Some said the markings were removed, or supposed to be when sold by the G, so any pistol with the mark intact had to be stolen.

 

[Michael W Cuber]

I wouldn’t worry about your 1911A1, enjoy it for the piece of history it is!

 

[dsk]

 

[Che]

I've heard of several firearms confiscated by police because of the US PROPERTY marking. Some said the markings were removed, or supposed to be when sold by the G, so any pistol with the mark intact had to be stolen.

I have heard that too.

Lot of people do not understand military surplus or firearm collections.

 

[dsk]

So what do I do with my commercial Beretta M9 replica and Colt WW1 replicas? They are US-marked yet were never sold to the government.