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At 25 yards, say, 50 rounds consecutive, what group size do/would you get, and what would you consider a good ( small ) group.

How about 50'?

With a average 1911 and at your own pace.

I have had my 1911 for about a month now and have only been shooting at the 50' range, free hand, I'm now getting consitstant 4" groups with 50 or so rounds. I have not shot at a 25yd range with it yet and was wondering what would be considered a fair group and a good group.

The reason I say 50 rounds, I figure your worst and best shot will come out with 50 rds, and where I shoot I get about 50 rounds before the RO calls for cold range.

I know my Kimber PC is not a bullseye type pistal, like I said above it is new to me, and I would like to know I have my fundamentals on track.

The info I get here is what I use as a guide, the only shooters I get to see shoot are usually younger fellows with the rambo method, 7 shots all on paper is a good thang! scarry...

Anyway TIA guyes,
Later...
 

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GSS said:
the only shooters I get to see shoot are usually younger fellows with the rambo method, 7 shots all on paper is a good thang! scarry...

Not necessarily. What is scary is when those 7 shots are NOT on the paper.

There comes a time when there may be a trade off between speed and accuracy. It is very hard to master both. In general, the most accurate shooters I have seen or trained, are not the fastest. The reverse is also true.

It depends on the target range. 7 shots on paper, shot rapidly at 25 yds. is fine for most intents and purposes. 7 shots barely on the paper at 7 yds. is not so fine.

I can put 50 rds into a fist sized group at 25 yds. shooting as slowly and precisely as I can. Or I can increase my speed slightly and have that group open up to a hand-sized hole in COM. Is that bad? No way.

Getting your "fundamentals on track" means learning to balance your speed with accuracy, and know when it is OK to trade one for the other depending on the situation.

You are correct in worrying about accuracy first, however. It is a true cliche that first you get good - then you get fast. Speed will follow once you have the basics of trigger control/recoil/breathing/sight-alignment down pat. Then you push yourself to try to keep the group sizes the same, while you whittle away your split times.
 

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I've been shooting handguns for something over 30 years and I've never shot a 50 round group in my life. Sorry!

My standard for accuracy is to keep a magazine (7-10 rounds, depending on model) on the head of an IPSC silhouette (6"X6") off-hand from 25 yards. From a rest or prone I would expect the same number of rounds to go into no more than 3"-4".

A couple months back I fired 5 rounds of my practace handload from my Wilson KZ-45 at 50 yards from prone. Group was 4.5" in the upper center chest. At my age (with my middle aged eyes) I can't shoot much better than that.
 

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With my Beretta Vertec, 2" groups. With my Beretta Brigadier, 4" groups, with my SA Micro 1911, I manage to hit the target. Lot has to do with the gun, lots has to do with the guy pulling the trigger.
 

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Bench rested at 25 yds, I can keep all of my shots in a 3" shoot-n-see on most days.

I've had groups as small as 1 to 1.5 inches (5 shots).......but not 50 rounds.

Offhand at 25 yds, I usually shoot between 3-4 inches with an occasional flyer.
 

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Speed is fine but accuracy is final!!!!!!!!
 

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From the posts I have seen here with a picture of a pistol sitting on top of a target, I thought the majority shot one hole groups.:D
 

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BillD said:
From the posts I have seen here with a picture of a pistol sitting on top of a target, I thought the majority shot one hole groups.:D
Check for powder burns! :biglaugh:

As has been noted, nobody shoots 50 rounds to determine group size. 10 is more typical.

As for group size at 25, that is heavily dependent on what your hardware is capable of, in addition of course to your skill. A shooter with 5" of wobble shooting a gun that would shoot a 5" group from a Ransom rest (not unheard of with a factory gun) would shoot a 10" group. The same shooter with a 1" gun would shoot a 6" group. Of course, if the shooter's wobble is greater than the size of the paper target, improving the hardware doesn't do so much. ;)
 

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Use the NRA Bullseye target for a standard measure.

A 5" shoot-n-see target just covers the black spot on a 25 yard target. (I think this is about the same as an IPSC target "head".)

At 25 yards, we shoot Timed Fire, meaning 5 shots in 20 seconds. Do this four times, for a total of 20 shots. (Also Rapid Fire, meaning 5 shots in 10 seconds. Four times.)

I've been to several matches, and if I could get all 40 shots into this black spot, I'd be VERY pleased with how I did. I might have done it a couple of times, out of a couple dozen opportunities.

Now I'm not very good, compared to some of the "old hands" at this. But if one uses this as a standard, you'll at least be able to compare ("apples to apples") objectively with thousands of other shooters.

If I didn't limit myself with the timer, I'm pretty confident I could hit the 5" black spot at 25 yards all day long, or at least until I got bored, and lost concentration.

We're really aiming at the bullseye in the spot (the "x-ring") that could be covered completely by a Kennedy half-dollar. This is both at 25 and 50 yards.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you are right there, a 4" group for 50 rounds, at 16 yards. Since your already interested in comparing the accuracy of your shooting to others, I think you're ready for a NRA Bullseye match.

There's bound to be one in your area. All you need is a .45, and a .22 or conversion top, and you're set. We also have .45 only matches, and also .22 only matches.

Check out this site for all you need to know to get started: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/
 

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I'm with ranger - bullseye would be good for you. It really teaches how trigger control, relaxation and stance all work together. It is shot differently with a one-hand grip, but if you're good at bullseye combat shooting will be no problem. I finally got up to scoring a 90 with my S&W 41, but it took a long time to get up to that.

From the posts I have seen here with a picture of a pistol sitting on top of a target, I thought the majority shot one hole groups.
I know. I love this board and THR also, but the claims of 1" shooting at 50 yards get old. :) Even though I shot bullseye I can't shoot NEAR what alot of these guys can! :p
 

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When I have shot 50 rounds in a sitting, I usually find the first twenty and the last ten are not as consistent as the middle rounds; I need some rounds to warm up, and then I get tired of concentrating at the end. I have put five rounds into less than 2" at 25 yards, with a couple of my guns, but I don't think I have ever shot five in a row that did. Mas Ayoob figures that if you measure the best three of a five-shot group, you have a pretty good idea of the gun's capability. If I shoot ten rounds at 25 yards, and the best six are in 2", I'm happy with the gun. Seeing the other four inside 4" makes me happy with myself. I've never even attempted a 50-yard group, as I don't think I'm capable of consistently holding at that range.
 

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At 25 yds I can consistantly hit an IDPA target center mass. Not all in the center circle part but at a quick pace at 25 yds center mass is not bad. If I had to put it into inches I would say 6-7 groups. No bench rest but run and gun.
 

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I’m a bullseye shooter, nra master for indoor and outdoor conventional pistol. If you can shoot 4” groups at 50 feet with one hand, off hand please contact me at [email protected] and I’ll get you in touch with the local bullseye shooters in your area. That’s a very promising start, and getting used to a turning target and the pressures of time that Ranger described is much easier before you get all kinds of bad habits.
Crazy
 

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Hey Crazy, I would love to shoot competition someday, but work unfortunately takes up a majority of my time.

You say 50 feet? If my calculations are correct, that's only a little under 17 yds!

I haven't really tried shooting one handed much, but offhand....using two hands, I know that shooting under 4 inches would not be a problem at all.

The next time I'm at the range, I'll try one handed.
 

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Hi Sgt,
Bullseye is shot at 25 and 50 yards, but if someone can shoot good groups at 50 feet, 75 (25 yards) isn't all that much further. If you or GSS have good enough trigger control to shoot well at 50 feet you wouldn't have any problems cleaning up in the beginner ranks of bullseye. Most bullseye shooters never get past expert, and a lot will be sharpshooters forever. But that doesn't mean that they aren't having fun and competing against others in their classification. You can start out just shooting the .22 portion if that's where your comfort zone is, or jump right into the .45 and get the adrenaline really flowing.

One other thought, it doesn't take expensive toys to compete. A Ruger MKII out of the box is a very accurate gun at 50 yards. It only gets more expensive from there. :)
 

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My best efforts so far have been right at 2" for five shots at 25yrds offhand with my Model 28 .357.I never shoot 50 shot groups as I get bored and start seeing dollars signs as the bullets pass thru the big ragged hole-I need to start reloading.:rolleyes:

I would estimate 4-5" groups for 50 shots handheld with most of my handguns and better with my best revolvers and CZ97.

This was what I got with a box of Corbon 125gr 9mm and my FEG PJK high power.(20rnds)
 

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Internet Groups or Real Groups?

First off, everybody on the internet shoots sub 2" groups at 25 yards. Experienced shooters like myself shoot closer to 1". Just don't ask how they define "group". usually, they shoot 20 shots and take the best three and call the rest flyers.

Anyway, to reality:

The standard NRA target of the man outline has a 10 ring whose dimensions are about 4" wide by 6" high with rounded corners. I shoot on that target in two different PPC leagues. Know how many people in the league can put all shots inside that 4 X 6 window? Two. me and one other guy, out of about 30 participants. And most nights I slip one or two out into the 9 zone. In the other PPC league, exactly one person (me) has shot a full set of 60 into the ten ring.... and I do NOT do it every time. Again, my average has a couple in the "9".

So, you see, being able to hold all shots inside a box that is 4" X 6" consistently is something beyond the reach of most real world shooters. If you are consistently staying inside a 4" diameter ring at 25 yards, you are way better than most range shooters.
 
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