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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you guys have any pet loads for 308 win? I've never loaded for this, and yes I do have manuals to thumb through but I'd like to hear of your favorite bullet, powder, etc. I'll be using a Remington 700 action, 16.5" bbl with 1:10 twist and suppressor :cool:

Range will be 200yd or less to start with. Eventually I'd like to try some 600yd shots, but that's the max for my local gun range.

I'm ordering dies, shellplate, and Hornady match brass today.
 

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.308

My Service Rifle friends swear by the Sierra 168 grain HPBT Match King bullet over 40.5 or 41.5 grains of 4895.
 

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Always check your manuals to confirm these suggestions:

At 200 yards or less I use 168 grain, at longer ranges like your 600 yd
definitely move up to 175 or 180.

For me, 4895 and R15.

You'll have to work it up for your rifle, but IMR4895 works for both bullets
and imitates Federal match ammo at around 42 to 43.5 grains, check your
manuals and work up to best accuracy. Usually about 2700 fps.
Interesting that IMR lists just about the same powder charge for both
168 SMK and 175 SMK. And that's what I find, just about the same
powder charge is accurate for both.

For 175 grain SMK an excellent powder is R15 but not at max load.
It seems to work best for me just below max load, about 2700 fps.
This is what I would try for that 600 yard mark. Depending upon
barrel length, you might safely get closer to 2800+ fps and
do well at 600. You'll have to work it up. I've been shooting
a 20 inch barrel lately, if you have 24 you might get more
velocity than me.

IMR4064 has also worked for me, especially hunting loads with 180 grain
soft point hunting bullets. I haven't used it much for target loads.

I've only dabbled with Varget but lots of good shooters use that and nothing else.
Find someone (maybe Tom Freeman) who has used it in 308Win and he'll tell ya.
But I haven't used it much in that cartridge myself.
 

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My friend has the exact same rifle and has been playing around with loads for it. You can expect approx. 250-300fps less out of that rifle than out of most others who have 24"-ish barrels(pretty standard for most factory guns)

His deer load this year was 44gr IMR4064, 165gr Sierra Game King, 2.800" OAL, Lapua Brass, CCI LRP.... clocked in at 2450fps and shot 0.5-0.75" groups at 100yds.

He bought a box of Hornady Superformance ammo with 150gr SST, it is advertised to be 200fps than any other ammo, it chronoed right around 2740fps out of his gun, and 3060fps out of my Savage 10FP.

If I were you, I'd stick with the 155gr match bullets for distance shooting, in your case you will benefit from the added velocity of a light bullet vs. the extra BC of the heavier ones.

I have developed 2 loads for my 308, all I do is shoot distance, no hunting with it... this is out of my Savage 10FP

168gr Sierra Match King (interchangeable with 168gr A-Max)
45.2 gr IMR 4064
2.810" OAL
Developed in Hornady brass but works in Lapua
CCI LRP
2825fps in 80* weather.
Best group was .384" at 100yds, would hold 0.5-0.75MOA out to 600yds

175gr SMK
44.1 Varget (groups opened to about 1" past this charge)
2.810" OAL
Lapua Brass
CCI LRP
2750fps in 60* weather.
.250-.350" groups at 100yds are easy work, shot it out to 1000yds and it will hold 0.5-0.75MOA if I do my part.
 

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After some brass length issues I settled on a 168gr Hornady HPBT on top of 47gr of
BL-C(2) that gives me my best groups through my two favorite .308's at up to 250 yards I usually don't shoot any farther. Are you going to full length size or just neck size?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Great, thanks for the info guys. I've got everything ordered but still looking for a suitable powder locally. I stumbled on some Hornady 168 HPBT at Bass Pro so I picked em up.

I did find some H322, but couldn't really find any data for it so I'll keep looking.

After some brass length issues I settled on a 168gr Hornady HPBT on top of 47gr of
BL-C(2) that gives me my best groups through my two favorite .308's at up to 250 yards I usually don't shoot any farther. Are you going to full length size or just neck size?
I will be full length sizing.
 

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My go to load for hunting is 43 grains of IMR 4064 under a Speer 165 grain BTSP. From a rest at 100 yards it makes nice clover leaves. I tried Varget and it did ok but not as well as the 4064.

I do have a couple pounds of BLC 2 that I want to try.
 

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In my Savage model 12 F/TR i use Lapua brass trimmed to 2.010 43 grains of Varget under a berger 175 grain LRBT seated .010 off the lands and Russian primers. This load in my gun will shoot 1/4 MOA out to 500 yards and 1/2 MOA at 1k
 

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Maybe I am missing something.

But I do not load 7.62X51 for a specific distance. I load for performance. This in most but not all cases is gauged in terms of accuracy. My meager observations indicate to me that if I get a loading that is accurate at two hundred yards. It will generally perform well at 500 yards which is as far as I generally get to shoot. The exception being when I get to shoot out as far as I can go 1,500 yards plus. And this only occurs on a very irregular basis.

Maybe I just can not shoot well enough to see it. I do not have top of the line rifles yet. But I have pretty good rifles with really good glass on them. My experience has been that when you get out past two or three hundred yards in precision shooting. The weak link is the shooter. Sure rifles, glass, and loads all figure into the solution. But I have seen about as many people out there with fair to middling equipment shooting factory ammo. and shooting like no tomorrow. As I have seen people out there with top notch equipment that for what ever reason can not hit the side of a barn. The most notable difference between these two groups of people being generally composed of two elements.

The veracity and volume of condemnation of gear choices as well as the lack of wear on same. This of course coming from the people that have far more money than marksmanship skills.
 

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My meager observations indicate to me that if I get a loading that is accurate at two hundred yards.
It will generally perform well at 500 yards which is as far as I generally get to shoot. The exception being
when I get to shoot out as far as I can go 1,500 yards plus. And this only occurs on a very irregular basis.
Up to 500 yards or so, your experience is similar to mine.

I don't shoot past 600 very often, but those who do tell me these things:

We have the expectation that accuracy is somewhat linear. If the group is 1 inch at 100 yds
then it's probably about 2 inches at 200 yards. So it's 8 inches at 800 yards. Right?
No, they are adamant it isn't linear. And the farther the range, the worse it gets.

Somewhere past 500 or 600 yards (more or less, rule of thumb)
they tell me drift and stability is entirely bullet design.
The bullet's ballistic characteristics and its velocity make a bigger
and bigger difference as the bullet flies farther. Air movement (breeze)
affects all bullets, but a bullet profile designed for long distance flight
is affected less, and that makes a bigger and bigger difference as the
distance grows. I've watched Palma matches where air movement they
detect on the meter but I can't feel on the face push the bullets
right off the board. At longer distances, it doesn't take much.

And you probably know about supersonic to subsonic transition.
It introduces vibrations that kick the bullet around. The other guys
will have to school us more on that, I'm not so familiar with 'why'.

And finally the bullet itself and its rpm (it's rotation) also deflect the bullet sideways
due to magnus drift. And if you are pointed more north-south than east-west
there is drift due to the rotation of the earth. Don't make fun of that, as the bullet
slows down it makes a bigger difference. At 1000 yards it moves the bullet
several inches. Our club range was built in the 1930's, and they did the
1000 yard known distance layout first so they could keep it strictly due
east/west to reduce coriolis force. Then they arranged the rest of the bays.


And of course, shooter skill as USMM mentions:
At extreme range, shooter skill includes the ability to judge wind, horizontal
incline (angle up or down), cant (rifle not straight up and down), etc etc.


I hope those long distance guys add to this thread, it would be cool to get
their first-person perspective.
 

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My favorite target shooting load is 45 grains of varget under a 175 grain match king in winchester brass and federal 210 match primers. I use this load for target shooting out to 1,000 yards.

Mike, Semper Fi !
 

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43.8gr of Varget, Russian LR primers, 168gr A-Max seated 0.010 off lands does about 0.3 MOA in my savage 10.

44.0gr RL15, Russian LR primers, 168gr A-Max seated 0.010 off lands does very close to the same.

also like 43.0gr RL15 with 178gr Sierra Match Kings @ 0.015 off lands


Did some loads with AR Comp, it seems to work very well in my 308 Garand with groups in the 4in range off hand @ 100 yards with irons, which is all I can muster. I haven't got around to serious load development with it, it was more goofing off with friends.
 

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You might squeeze a little more accuracy out of just neck sizing brass, but some people cant tell a difference its up to you. But a HPBT in the 168 -175 gr range seems to be a common "accurate " load bullet. I haven't shot over 500 yards since leaving the Army, but for the distances I do shoot I can put multiple shots in a single hole from a rest. Your 700 should be able to do the same, have fun working up a load.......
 

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Wind is huge and it is very inconsistent. Hence why you see the guys at the long range matches waiting for the perfect time to shoot. We were shooting out to 1k this weekend, there was a steady 6-7mph wind, my hold for wind was 1.8mils at 1k, which is roughly 65". Also wind shows you how much a heavier and higher BC bullet will do. My friend who was shooting a 338 Ultra Mag, 285gr bullet .700BC only had to hold 0.6mil.

And you probably know about supersonic to subsonic transition.
It introduces vibrations that kick the bullet around. The other guys
will have to school us more on that, I'm not so familiar with 'why'. .
For all intents and purposes, once your bullet hits the transonic barrier 1.2-0.8 Mach it is pretty much impossible to calculate its flight and is typically known as the max distance of a caliber. As you pass through this barrier the supersonic shockwave and center of pressure shifts on the bullet and as a result destabilizes it, and if the bullet is coming in with any yaw it will throw it off. If you are interested youtube tiborasaurusrex, he has videos explaining what happens in more detail.

And finally the bullet itself and its rpm (it's rotation) also deflect the bullet sideways
due to magnus drift. And if you are pointed more north-south than east-west
there is drift due to the rotation of the earth. Don't make fun of that, as the bullet
slows down it makes a bigger difference. At 1000 yards it moves the bullet
several inches.
Yes, on a good velocity 175gr 308 load assuming you are pointing N/S or E/S exactly you will have almost 0.1 mil of Coriolis affect. That 3.6" at 1000yds.


And of course, shooter skill as USMM mentions:
At extreme range, shooter skill includes the ability to judge wind, horizontal
incline (angle up or down), cant (rifle not straight up and down), etc etc.

I hope those long distance guys add to this thread, it would be cool to get
their first-person perspective.
In my opinion... learning your drops for ALL conditions and being able to adjust for wind are the two hardest things for long (past 600yd) shooting. Changes in temperature, air pressure, altitude, and ammo velocity due to weather will ALL impact your long range shooting. You really need to get out and shoot in all conditions, winter to hot summer and have consistent ammo to establish drops for your gun and your load. Heck, even leaving a round in a hot chamber for too long will cook the powder enough to change your POI at distance. And with wind, the only thing to do is to go out and shoot in the wind. Learn how it feels (or get a meter, its really helpful :biglaugh:) and learn how to adjust accordingly.

You might squeeze a little more accuracy out of just neck sizing brass, but some people cant tell a difference its up to you. .
I had the Lapua Brass rep tell me there is no gain in accuracy in neck sizing, and when you look at it, no bench rest guys do it. Its just a process to preserve brass, but if your gun is sensitive it makes for a nightmare with reloading. I gave up neck sizing after I would get an average of 25-30% of rounds that would refuse to chamber. Seems like it works for some people, but I would rather trim and buy sooner than deal with N/S again.
 

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I load for 7 different 308 rifles including autoloaders, a lever action, and a bolt action. I wanted a nice mild load that would work well in anything from a Navy Garand to a M77. Blinding speed was not a major concern. I finally settled on 42 grains of IMR 4895 behind a 150 grain Hornady sparked with a Winchester primer. I can ring every gong at the 400 yard range with that load. I have also never lost a deer shot with this load.

You probably want something a little zippier and with a heavier bullet for your bolt action rifle. You also might want to tinker with a subsonic load with a heavy bullet for quiet use with the suppressor.
 

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It sure would be nice.

I load for 7 different 308 rifles including autoloaders, a lever action, and a bolt action. I wanted a nice mild load that would work well in anything from a Navy Garand to a M77. Blinding speed was not a major concern. I finally settled on 42 grains of IMR 4895 behind a 150 grain Hornady sparked with a Winchester primer. I can ring every gong at the 400 yard range with that load. I have also never lost a deer shot with this load.

You probably want something a little zippier and with a heavier bullet for your bolt action rifle. You also might want to tinker with a subsonic load with a heavy bullet for quiet use with the suppressor.
To be able to get some IMR 4895. I have not seen any of it around these parts in six months or more. I generally have had really good results using it myself. Lately I have been getting by with IMR 4064 which has been pretty plentiful. It works well. But I think that IMR 4895 edges it out with heavier bullets at longer ranges.
 

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The walmart around here was getting 4064 kinda regular for a while so I was able to stock up some.
 

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To be able to get some IMR 4895. I have not see any of it around these parts in six months or more. I generally have had really good results using it myself. Lately I have been getting by with IMR 4064 which has been pretty plentiful. It works well. But I think that IMR 4895 edges it out with heavier bullets at longer ranges.
I have been having a hard time getting 4895 and am down to about 2 pounds. I have a bunch of 4064 and have loaded some rounds with it with good results.
 

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A word of caution: Hodgdon 4895 and IMR 4895 are not the same powder. Slightly smaller loads and less temperature sensitivity with Hodgdon's.

I use H4895 in my M1A but would try slower powders like Varget in a bolt action rifle.
 
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