38 super is fine but I really wish 9x23 Winchester would make it to the mainstream. Then you can have real 357 magnum juice without going up to 10mm. I intend to get a 10mm 1911 at some point but I may take a detour to get into reloading just so I can get a 9x23 Win made.
.38 super for carry
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I got into 38 Super this year.
Yea it's a bit more expensive than 9mm.
I don't shoot enough for it to matter.
The 38 super when loaded to +P with a 115 or 124 gr. hollowpoint out classes the 9mm.
In fact puts you in 357 mag territory.
The two brands I have been trying out are Corbon and Double tap.
Corbon recently got sold to another owner and the quality is sketchy, though I haven't run across any problems.
Double Tap makes good ammo, but you have to buy factory direct.
Not a problem, they are great to work with and I get my orders in acouple of days.
Avoid Underwood 38 Super. The make great ammo, but load their 38 Super in Supercomp cases. Supercomp has a differant size rim and you may have to adjust your extractor to run it.
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=303_339
Yea it's a bit more expensive than 9mm.
I don't shoot enough for it to matter.
The 38 super when loaded to +P with a 115 or 124 gr. hollowpoint out classes the 9mm.
In fact puts you in 357 mag territory.
The two brands I have been trying out are Corbon and Double tap.
Corbon recently got sold to another owner and the quality is sketchy, though I haven't run across any problems.
Double Tap makes good ammo, but you have to buy factory direct.
Not a problem, they are great to work with and I get my orders in acouple of days.
Avoid Underwood 38 Super. The make great ammo, but load their 38 Super in Supercomp cases. Supercomp has a differant size rim and you may have to adjust your extractor to run it.
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=303_339
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8,277 Posts
.38 Super ammunition.....
I have never had to use my concealed carry .38 super for self defense, but I want to make sure my ammunition will work if ever needed. Although it is rare, there have been instances where factory ammo has failed.....but the public is usually not made aware of the instances.....
I reload all of my ammo, and take extra precautions when making my .38 super ammo or self defense. I start with new Starline brass cases, or once fired cases. I have worked up a load that will provide excellent reliability with my concealed carry weapon, excellent accuracy, and very good terminal ballistics....I use 124 grain Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP bullets......these JHP profiles offer excellent expansion, which is why many law enforcement agencies use these bullets in their departments. My .38 super loads are similar in ballistics to a low end .357 magnum round....and leave the muzzle of my gun at roughly 1,300 fps.
My handloads will shoot 5-shot three inch groups or better from a sand bag rest at 50 yards, which is my criteria for accuracy..... By reloading my own self defense ammo, I know there is a flash hole in the brass case, I know there is powder in the case because I check each round before I seat a bullet. When I purchase factory ammo, I assume the ammo is good, but I prefer to make my own self defense ammo since I have my own quality control guidelines, and I am confident the ammo will work if ever needed....without making any assumptions that the ammo should work.... :rock:
I have never had to use my concealed carry .38 super for self defense, but I want to make sure my ammunition will work if ever needed. Although it is rare, there have been instances where factory ammo has failed.....but the public is usually not made aware of the instances.....
I reload all of my ammo, and take extra precautions when making my .38 super ammo or self defense. I start with new Starline brass cases, or once fired cases. I have worked up a load that will provide excellent reliability with my concealed carry weapon, excellent accuracy, and very good terminal ballistics....I use 124 grain Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP bullets......these JHP profiles offer excellent expansion, which is why many law enforcement agencies use these bullets in their departments. My .38 super loads are similar in ballistics to a low end .357 magnum round....and leave the muzzle of my gun at roughly 1,300 fps.
My handloads will shoot 5-shot three inch groups or better from a sand bag rest at 50 yards, which is my criteria for accuracy..... By reloading my own self defense ammo, I know there is a flash hole in the brass case, I know there is powder in the case because I check each round before I seat a bullet. When I purchase factory ammo, I assume the ammo is good, but I prefer to make my own self defense ammo since I have my own quality control guidelines, and I am confident the ammo will work if ever needed....without making any assumptions that the ammo should work.... :rock:
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7,694 Posts
So, if I already have three different 10mm pistols then there isn’t a reason to mess with 38 super other than to just mess with it as 10.mm will take care of business?
The 10mm will definitely take care of business. Excellent self defense or hunting round.
That being said, the .38 Super is a great round, so why not have both?
Capacity. But yeah, 1CM will get'er done and get you a capacity advantage over .45. The 10 will probably be my favorite for all time.
I also have a DW Guardian in .38 Super. I wanted the option of shooting 9mm in my Guardian. I purchased a ramped 9mm barrel from Heavy Armor Division and it dropped right in. YMMV https://store.heavyarmordivision.com/product-p/had-pbbl-4259.htm
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8,277 Posts
.38 super for self defense.....
The .38 super cartridge is one that can be hand loaded from "mild to wild!"
When a 1911 or STI 2011 is properly set up with the right springs for the power of the load in a properly built gun.....it is an extremely reliable cartridge and capable of excellent accuracy.
The reason why I choose this round for self defense, is with good 124gr. JHP bullets travelling out the muzzle around 1,300 fps, the bullet leaves the barrel faster than a slower round, so the bullet is out of the gun before the muzzle lifts too high (muzzle jump) Less muzzle rise means the shooter can get back on target faster! This allows very fast shooting and sight tracking when shooting fast controlled pairs.....and the muzzle energy of a 124gr. bullet at 1,300 fps is over 460 ft. lbs.....
If a person wants to get the ultimate velocity and energy by reloading the .38 super start with new Starline brass, a barrel that completely supports the case up to the extractor groove, and reload using Vihtavuori N105.....the Vihtavuori website for handloading N105 with a 124 gr. bullet shows a max load of 10.4 grains of N105 will leave the muzzle at 1,500 fps. with 620 ft. lbs. of energy....which is true .357 magnum ballistics!:rock: If a person uses a 1911 or STI 2011 with the above hot handload, I would recommend a 26lb. mainspring to keep the slide velocity at an acceptable level.....otherwise, the magazines may not be able to feed the rounds fast enough for optimal reliability.....
It would be a simple matter to use a lighter mainspring for softer shooting plinking loads, and swap to a much heavier 26lb. or possibly higher mainspring weight for serious combat loads..... If any 1911 or STI 2011 gun is ejecting brass 8-10 feet away, it is more than likely it would be better to have a heavier mainspring for the particular load used.
The .38 super cartridge is one that can be hand loaded from "mild to wild!"
When a 1911 or STI 2011 is properly set up with the right springs for the power of the load in a properly built gun.....it is an extremely reliable cartridge and capable of excellent accuracy.
The reason why I choose this round for self defense, is with good 124gr. JHP bullets travelling out the muzzle around 1,300 fps, the bullet leaves the barrel faster than a slower round, so the bullet is out of the gun before the muzzle lifts too high (muzzle jump) Less muzzle rise means the shooter can get back on target faster! This allows very fast shooting and sight tracking when shooting fast controlled pairs.....and the muzzle energy of a 124gr. bullet at 1,300 fps is over 460 ft. lbs.....
If a person wants to get the ultimate velocity and energy by reloading the .38 super start with new Starline brass, a barrel that completely supports the case up to the extractor groove, and reload using Vihtavuori N105.....the Vihtavuori website for handloading N105 with a 124 gr. bullet shows a max load of 10.4 grains of N105 will leave the muzzle at 1,500 fps. with 620 ft. lbs. of energy....which is true .357 magnum ballistics!:rock: If a person uses a 1911 or STI 2011 with the above hot handload, I would recommend a 26lb. mainspring to keep the slide velocity at an acceptable level.....otherwise, the magazines may not be able to feed the rounds fast enough for optimal reliability.....
It would be a simple matter to use a lighter mainspring for softer shooting plinking loads, and swap to a much heavier 26lb. or possibly higher mainspring weight for serious combat loads..... If any 1911 or STI 2011 gun is ejecting brass 8-10 feet away, it is more than likely it would be better to have a heavier mainspring for the particular load used.
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1,838 Posts
A big plus is if the democrat party lets Mexico overtake control of the US, the 38 Super would be legal to own. Mexican citizens are not allowed to own a caliber that is in use by the military or Police.
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545 Posts
For all of you that have had extensive experience with .38S. I’m having major problems with the semi-rim rim stacking in my Tripp and McC mags. By the time I have the 7th round in the mag, the top round is not angled the correct way and dives into the feed ramp of the barrel. The mags run 10 .38S comp ammo totally fine and with all 10 in the mag the top round sits with the correct angle for proper feeding. Is this a known thing because of the “semi-rim”? What’s the remedy? I really like the .38S ballistics, but I’m thinking of going to 9mm because of the stupid semi-rim that mainstream ammo manufacturers seem to think is still necessary. Why haven’t they gotten rid of the semi-rim yet now that they space against the mouth of the cartridge? I was so proud of my PTG .38S reamer when I got it, now I’m thinking it was a waste of money because of the secondary cut for the semi-rim that causes this torturous rim stacking. It makes me wonder how Coonan got his .357 to stack properly in his 1911 type semi-auto. I’ve never used one, but I wonder what the different is about his mags to avoid rim stacking.
I would be more inclined to use a flat firing pin stop and take it easy on the springs. A heavier recoil spring only slows the slide down in ONE direction.If a person wants to get the ultimate velocity and energy by reloading the .38 super start with new Starline brass, a barrel that completely supports the case up to the extractor groove, and reload using Vihtavuori N105.....the Vihtavuori website for handloading N105 with a 124 gr. bullet shows a max load of 10.4 grains of N105 will leave the muzzle at 1,500 fps. with 620 ft. lbs. of energy....which is true .357 magnum ballistics!:rock: If a person uses a 1911 or STI 2011 with the above hot handload, I would recommend a 26lb. mainspring to keep the slide velocity at an acceptable level.....otherwise, the magazines may not be able to feed the rounds fast enough for optimal reliability.....
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640 Posts
I use Tripp magazines in my compact .38 Super pistols and have no problems with them. My top round sits at the same angle as the top of the magazine, with top edge of the case rim pressed all the way back against the rear of the mag. As I load the magazines, the rounds will click into place as the case rim drops into the extractor groove of the round below. I use Tripps in my compact Wilsons, and also in my Caspian officer's frame pistol that uses a Colt Combat Commander slide. Each of these pistols run perfectly with the Tripps mags.
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3,418 Posts
In addition to the 1911 platform in .38 Super I also have a EAA Witness (all steel) 17 round .38 Super. Nothing like having a box of ammo in 3 magazines.
I may scrimp on ammo used on the range but I do not count pennies when it comes to carry ammo for any caliber I carry. I also shoot at least one magazine of my carry ammo with every range session. There is a difference between range ammo and carry ammo as you know.
I may scrimp on ammo used on the range but I do not count pennies when it comes to carry ammo for any caliber I carry. I also shoot at least one magazine of my carry ammo with every range session. There is a difference between range ammo and carry ammo as you know.
I have a bunch of these CMC and Tripp mags. Can’t say that I have any feeding issues. Tap the spine against your palm or a hard surface to seat the rounds.
PS. You can buy rimless .38 SPR. It’s called Super Comp. you can buy Starline brass cut that way. Atlanta Ammunition also loads factory rounds. Frankly this concoction is good for double stack mags. In single stack mags it shouldn’t be an issue if you make sure that the cartridges are fully seat.
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545 Posts
I just don’t get it. I load the mags properly and once I get past about 5 rounds the rounds start leveling out under the feed lips until finally the 10th is basically parallel to the floor plate. I can flip the round up so it sits correctly, but the next round doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. I’ve messed with this problem for awhile now to no avail.
I’m not sure what the cause of this issue is however I can tell you that I had the same issue with Wilson ETM (10 round)
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545 Posts
I’ve tried those as well. Same thing.
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8,277 Posts
Good reliability with .38 super rounds in single stack guns....
I have been shooting .38 super for over 35years, in competition and for fun....
and have never had an issue with single stack or double stack guns using the .38 super round..... I have never felt the need to use .38 super comp brass, and all of my .38 super guns shoot JHP rounds without issues....
If a single stack .38 super is having issues, more often than not, the mag seats too low in the frame, and strikes the feed ramp too low causing issues. If a person can seat a .38 super mag in their gun, and there is a lot of vertical play once the mag is seated, an Evolution Gun Works 1911 high mag catch will raise the mag up to .020" in the frame, which helps to eliminate bullet nose dives.
In addition, if the feed lips of any .38 super mag are too wide, and the top round sits too high above the feed lips, this may be an issue that prevents reliable feeding.....
I have been shooting .38 super for over 35years, in competition and for fun....
and have never had an issue with single stack or double stack guns using the .38 super round..... I have never felt the need to use .38 super comp brass, and all of my .38 super guns shoot JHP rounds without issues....
If a single stack .38 super is having issues, more often than not, the mag seats too low in the frame, and strikes the feed ramp too low causing issues. If a person can seat a .38 super mag in their gun, and there is a lot of vertical play once the mag is seated, an Evolution Gun Works 1911 high mag catch will raise the mag up to .020" in the frame, which helps to eliminate bullet nose dives.
In addition, if the feed lips of any .38 super mag are too wide, and the top round sits too high above the feed lips, this may be an issue that prevents reliable feeding.....
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8,277 Posts
Heavier main spring to reduce slide velocity....
In my experience, a 1911 gun that ejects the empty brass cases an average of 3-4 feet from the shooter is usually a good indication that the springs are "balanced" for that particular load. I have found that the more powerful the load of any 1911 caliber, a heavier mainspring is often better..... when brass cases eject 6-8 feet or further from a 1911, it is time to consider using a heavier mainspring for that load...…
For shooting IDPA with my STI 2011 Eagle in 9mm, the minimum power factor is 125.....my load of a Precision Delta 124 gr. JHP bullet with 4.0 grains of Tight Group powder makes about a 128-130 PF in my gun. I use an 18# mainspring with a 10# recoil spring..... Very good accuracy and reliability! :rock:
To get optimal sight tracking with any 1911 or STI 2011 gun, the hammer spring does more to reduce slide velocity than the recoil spring.... most shooters have excessively heavy recoil springs, but a balance of the proper hammer spring coupled with the proper recoil spring for the power of the load is needed for optimal sight tracking.
In my experience, a 1911 gun that ejects the empty brass cases an average of 3-4 feet from the shooter is usually a good indication that the springs are "balanced" for that particular load. I have found that the more powerful the load of any 1911 caliber, a heavier mainspring is often better..... when brass cases eject 6-8 feet or further from a 1911, it is time to consider using a heavier mainspring for that load...…
For shooting IDPA with my STI 2011 Eagle in 9mm, the minimum power factor is 125.....my load of a Precision Delta 124 gr. JHP bullet with 4.0 grains of Tight Group powder makes about a 128-130 PF in my gun. I use an 18# mainspring with a 10# recoil spring..... Very good accuracy and reliability! :rock:
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545 Posts
If I load 3, everything is fine. As more go into the mag the rounds don’t sit correctly.I have been shooting .38 super for over 35years, in competition and for fun....
and have never had an issue with single stack or double stack guns using the .38 super round..... I have never felt the need to use .38 super comp brass, and all of my .38 super guns shoot JHP rounds without issues....
If a single stack .38 super is having issues, more often than not, the mag seats too low in the frame, and strikes the feed ramp too low causing issues. If a person can seat a .38 super mag in their gun, and there is a lot of vertical play once the mag is seated, an Evolution Gun Works 1911 high mag catch will raise the mag up to .020" in the frame, which helps to eliminate bullet nose dives.
In addition, if the feed lips of any .38 super mag are too wide, and the top round sits too high above the feed lips, this may be an issue that prevents reliable feeding.....![]()
The only thing I can think is that the rim is getting caught in the extractor groove on the round below causing it to nose dive. I really do want to get this figured out though.
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