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Discussion Starter #1
OK, while we're discussing the theoretical advantages and disadvantages of certain rounds.

I was wondering your thoughts on those .410 shotshell revolvers as a defensive round.

I personally wouldn't use it, but want to hear your take on it. On paper it seems reasonable. If you get one with OO or OOO shot, then you have 3-5 large cal pellets going out with several paths to vital organs.

Defensive ranges for police mirror civillian distances at 3-7 yards.

What do you think?
 

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I think the revolvers that shoot the 410 rounds are clunky and would be hard to handle efficiently in a SHTF situation. A better use for them would be in a tackle box or in a boat and used for a snake gun or something like that.

And like ANY gun ... it is better than having nothing!

Also the spread on a .410 is less than optimal, why not just have a short barreled 12 gauge pump?

Or better yet... our trusty old .45's
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Flatiron said:
I think the revolvers that shoot the 410 rounds are clunky and would be hard to handle efficiently in a SHTF situation. A better use for them would be in a tackle box or in a boat and used for a snake gun or something like that.

And like ANY gun ... it is better than having nothing!

Also the spread on a .410 is less than optimal, why not just have a short barreled 12 gauge pump?

Or better yet... our trusty old .45's
I thought the same. This article is what prompted my post and I thought it would be good discussion fodder.

The shotty would have a long barrel, even in the shortest configuration. In the house going around corners, can be grabbed and doesn't have the quick maneuverbility of a pistol

The shot revolver also is a legalally the shortes "sawed off" shotgun you can own and would allow pie plate spread, you otherwise wouldn't get in a long shotgun at house distances.

So at 7 yards, with stress factored in, a 5 inch miss or even a grazing shot, by one single round, is still a hit with shotshell.

Also theorize you can load it with shot for the first few rounds, then .45 LC for the last few. You have a solid back up then. Shotgun and pistol shells in one.

Again, more fuel for the fire.

Here's the article for more info to add to the topic.....

http://www.gunweek.com/2006/feature0620.html
 

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Yeah I read the article it brings up some good points. But also the article is almost written like its trying to sell you the gun, I don't know I could be wrong.

I do have a home defense shot gun. Is is a 20" 8 shot Mossberg Persuder police riot shot gun with pistol grip and forward handle loaded to the hilt with 00 buck. If I ever had to go downstairs in the middle of the night to investigate a noise I wouldn't stick the barrel around a corner so someone could grab it, I know enough to have the gun ready and you take the corner quickly.

God help anyone who tried to grab the barrel of my shotgun if I am clearing my house and it is dark and a sudden move is made towards me.

I dunno, I could see a use for this gun if someone wanted it but I couldn't see one in my house.

And most likely I would grab my .45 anyways if I had to lay my hand on a gun quickly and I know the problem about over penetration but my kid is grown and gone and I am a big believer in shot placement anyways. :rock:
 

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A 10 inch pattern at 4 yards is useless. Individual pellets will be
acting alone, and none will penetrate to critical depths. This
will sting the heck out of an attacker, but it won't stop them.

Human attackers, that is. If you need a gun for snakes and small
mammals, this would work well.

Joe
 

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The guys over at box o truth recently did informal testing on the Taurus Judge.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

It would appear that both bird and buckshot would be inadequate for penetration against a human attacker. A .410 slug may, but at that point, why not just use .45lc?

It is however, a versatile weapon, with shot for snakes and other small critters, but .45lc for large critters.
 

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My first firearm was a .410 Win pump, @ 6-yrs-old. .410 was appropriate until I matured a little. Got no use for them now. My home defense choice is the same as my walking-about defense choice.
 

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Found this, may be interesting if you do consider a .410

"Quote"

BUCK SHOT: Winchester makes a .410 buckshot load in a 2 ½ inch shell containing three "triple-ought" or 000 buck shot. The 000 buck is .360 in diameter, weighs 71 grains, and the first pellet out of the two shells which I chronographed out of a Remington Model 870 with 25 inch barrel crossed the chronograph screens at slightly above 1250 fps with a muzzle energy of nearly 250 ft. lbs. The other pellets were no doubt going nearly as fast. That gives three pellets each with as much energy as a standard .38 special police load, and a total energy of 750 ft. lbs. That would have to be quite effective.

I have not used any of the "double-ought" or 00 buck shot loads, but the specs I have seen call for five 00s in a 3 inch shell with a similar muzzle velocity. A 00 buck shot is commonly caliber .33 and also commonly caliber .34, depending on whose figures you use. To be conservative, I will use the smaller.33 ball which weighs 54 grains. At an MV of 1250, each pellet develops an ME of 187 ft. lbs. Or a total energy of 935 ft. lbs. Thus each 00 pellet has about as much energy as a .380 auto pistol cartridge.
 

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Rifling spreads the pellets fairly rapidly, and the short Judge barrel robs them of velocity. A LOT of velocity.
Many better choices, this is NOT the equivalent of a full length shotgun in any way.
Denis
 

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If I had one, it would only be loaded with 00 buck or slugs. Yes, they do make slugs for the 410 but they can be hard to find.

Personally I consider the 410 revolvers to be useless for self sefense. Load it with 45 Colt and now you have something. But even then, those revolvers are so light that 45 Colt will have considerable recoil.

There are better options.
 

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blammo said:
If I had one, it would only be loaded with 00 buck or slugs. Yes, they do make slugs for the 410 but they can be hard to find.

Personally I consider the 410 revolvers to be useless for self sefense. Load it with 45 Colt and now you have something. But even then, those revolvers are so light that 45 Colt will have considerable recoil.

There are better options.
I'd consider my Woodsman to be a better option!;)
 

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I always thought that those 410 revolvers would be good for snakes, but with all the other choices out there I wouldn't really want one for self defense.
 

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With that short barrel, looks like the end of the shell would be very near the muzzle. With virtually no tube or choke to condense the pattern, it would expand very quickly, rendering it no more than a nuisance.
 

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Why would you want to use a grossly undersized and soft .410 slug half the weight of a well-designed .45 Colt bullet that fits the bore?
And, again- buck spreads & doesn't carry good velocity in the Judge.
You see almost nobody advocate the .410 shotgun for defensive use, the only thing that makes the Judge look good in this area is its portability.
Its terminal effectiveness on aggressors is nowhere near the same as the .410 shotgun, with higher velocities in slug & buck loads, and no centrifugal spin to open up every type of shotshell so rapidly.

Just understand what it is, and what it isn't. :)
Denis
 

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rodeoclown said:
I wouldnt want to be shot by it.
I wouldn't want to be shot with a BB gun. That in no way makes it a good defensive arm.:grumble:
 

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ERdept said:
OK, it's settled. No good and we stick to the old favorites. I'm all for that.:cool:

I found this link. Guess this guy proves it's no good...........

We didn't say it was no good.

Okay, I looked at the boxoftruth article, and now I agree.
It's no good. The snake pattern was so spread out, I don't
think this thing would even be reliable snake medicine.

Joe
 

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I owned a double barrel cobray 45 lc 410 derringer I only messed around with it at the range a couple times with 410 slugs no pellets if needed only way itwould be effective against a person for defense would be if they were basicallyalready on you. On paper the shots would kinda keyhole and leave a lot of ripping on rather than a fairly clean hole on paper on a person I have no idea if it would do the same on a person though it would leave a nasty hole on paper though.
 

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Extrapolating from my tests, the birdshot should work very well on snakes, INSIDE three yards. At five yards it produced patterns with holes big enough to drive a rabbit through, but would still most likely put several pellets into a snake, somewhere. Might take more than one shot, but it'd be viable.
Denis
 
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