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.45 Super upgrade

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I've been wanting a Kimber TLE/RL stainless 10mm for
a few years, but they only make it in "black". I emailed
them and was told to buy The Eclipse model, but I don't
like that model. I've looked at all the other nice stainless,
10mm 1911's on the market, but they're all over $1200,
and even for $1200 you get minimum features.

So I said, "SCREW THIS" and converted my Kimber TLE/RL
stainless .45 acp to .45 SUPER, which gives close to the
same ballistics as the 10mm; using Underwood .45 Super,
185 gr XTP/JHP's I get 1300/700 power, which matches
10mm 185 gr rounds AND I only needed to add $28 worth
of parts to my pistol.

Parts -
1. 22# recoil spring & extra power firing pin spring $7
2. 25# mainspring $6
3. Flat firing pin stop plate $15

AND for added dependability I use 5% higher power magazine
springs, which increase function/reliability; especially using the
8 round followers in my magazines.

ALSO, to fire "lesser" .45 acp rounds I just need to easily switch
to a 18.5 recoil spring.

This setup in my TLE/RL fires like "butter" and (by the way) you
do NOT need a "fully supported/ramped barrel", like so many of
those with no real knowledge tell you online. The .45 Super cases
are plenty strong, and there is no "bulging" of the case. Now if
you wanted to go even hotter than the factory rounds, it would be
a good idea to go with a ramped barrel.

Underwood makes the best "higher power" rounds, in my opinion,
in several calibers, and charge HALF of "others" ammo. The nickel
cases, cannelured/swagged bullets and smokeless/low flash powders
are great. I also happen to think the XTP bullet is the best all around
available today.



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Don't know anything about 45 Super but I love Underwoods stuff. Almost all my carry loads are Underwood.

I buy it straight from Underwood, they run sales very frequently and as mentioned prices are much better than many other competitors. Quality is top notch too.
 

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CDMCKY, sounds like some interesting fun for a very small investment. I admit I would prefer some version of regular old .45 ACP for carry/SD, etc. I did carry a .45 ACP full time for several years actually. But, to each his own. I admit I am a 10MM fan, but don't carry the 10 either. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if some .45 Super loads exceed 10MM ballistics. I have used the old Norma 10MM 200 @ 1200, CorBon 165 @ 1380, Buffalo Bore 180 @ 1380, all Chronographed in my guns, but would consider those possibly a bit much for everyday carry........ymmv
 

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Don't know anything about 45 Super but I love Underwoods stuff. Almost all my carry loads are Underwood.

I buy it straight from Underwood, they run sales very frequently and as mentioned prices are much better than many other competitors. Quality is top notch too.
Thanks for reminding me to sign up for thier newsletter about sales.
Btw Double tap has them too and regularly sells dicounted ammo at 30-35% off with free shipping.
Full power loads under $20 a for a box of 50 is a decent deal.
 

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I have been wanting to convert one of my .45s to 45 super I have also been thinking about building an Ar15 in 45 super
That would be interesting. I thought I wanted a 10mm AR, but there never seemed to be a good hi-cap mag readily available.
An AR in Super might just need a different buffer?
 

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1. You don't hunt with hollow points

2. Underwood 185 gr XTP/JHP's afford enough power to handle a wide
range of SD scenarios, for those with skill, and what's "horrible" is
having a puny caliber/load in a gunfight
I love the babble of the ignorant proletariat!:hrm:
 

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I have not played a lot with it yet. I remember back in the 70s some friends were cutting down 30-06 (or was it 308?) rifle brass and shooting it in old Colt 1911s. The fact the guys still have two hands and two eyes is a testimony to the strength of the 1911 design.

Of course guys like that gave us the 451 Detonics and then later the 45 Super. It does bother me that the 45 Super case is the same length as the 45 ACP where the 451 Detonics was a little longer so it would not chamber in a 45 ACP pistol. It does concern me what happens when 45 Super is shot by someone who does not know what it is in an old Colt Gold Cup with the lightened frame and weak target spring or even a classic Commander with the lightened slide.

All I would say is label your ammo well. I have 45 Colt (which some people call 45 Long Colt). Some I load for old Colt SA revolvers, other for Ruger Blackhawk revolvers and still other rounds for my Marlin rifle in 45 Colt.
 

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.45 Super cases do have .45 SUPER stamped on them . . .

There was another cartridge that was very similar to .45 Super, but the cases used small primers. That was another means of helping ensure that cases and loads didn't get mixed-up, but, we now have ACP cases with small primers, so, we're back to reading headstamps.

If you fired a .45 Super round in a Commander, you'd certainly know it, and I'd hope you did some investigating before firing another.
 

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I've been wanting a Kimber TLE/RL stainless 10mm for
a few years, but they only make it in "black". I emailed
them and was told to buy The Eclipse model, but I don't
like that model. I've looked at all the other nice stainless,
10mm 1911's on the market, but they're all over $1200,
and even for $1200 you get minimum features.

So I said, "SCREW THIS" and converted my Kimber TLE/RL
stainless .45 acp to .45 SUPER, which gives close to the
same ballistics as the 10mm; using Underwood .45 Super,
185 gr XTP/JHP's I get 1300/700 power, which matches
10mm 185 gr rounds AND I only needed to add $28 worth
of parts to my pistol.

Parts -
1. 22# recoil spring & extra power firing pin spring $7
2. 25# mainspring $6
3. Flat firing pin stop plate $15

AND for added dependability I use 5% higher power magazine
springs, which increase function/reliability; especially using the
8 round followers in my magazines.

ALSO, to fire "lesser" .45 acp rounds I just need to easily switch
to a 18.5 recoil spring.

This setup in my TLE/RL fires like "butter" and (by the way) you
do NOT need a "fully supported/ramped barrel", like so many of
those with no real knowledge tell you online. The .45 Super cases
are plenty strong, and there is no "bulging" of the case. Now if
you wanted to go even hotter than the factory rounds, it would be
a good idea to go with a ramped barrel.

Underwood makes the best "higher power" rounds, in my opinion,
in several calibers, and charge HALF of "others" ammo. The nickel
cases, cannelured/swagged bullets and smokeless/low flash powders
are great. I also happen to think the XTP bullet is the best all around
available today.



Sounds VERY interesting. So if understand you correctly, your factory .45 ACP barrel is good to go with the .45 Super round, all you did was add the parts mentioned?

I had a Glock 20 in 10mm that I used to carry as a woods gun. Sold it last year, they are just too darn big for my hands. I have a Glock 21 as well and wondered about a .45 Super conversion for it at times but it's still a big gun.

I have a USGI Ithaca 1911 that I love shooting and it's proven to be 100% reliable. It's not in any way collectible, it's been refinished.

Would a WWII era 1911 gun in excellent shape overall be a safe and reliable candidate for the .45 Super?
 

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Is it worth it to me to have an extra 100fps when my Underwood 185grain gold dots are 1200fps?
I'm not sure, but one of the questions preceding that one might be, "CAN I have an extra 100 f/s when my 185 gr. Gold Dots are 1200 f/s?"
At 1200 f/s with a 185gr. projectile, it sounds like you may be at the max end of the velocity scale, until pressures rise into the .460 Rowland range.

I'D CHEERFULLY trade 185gr. @ 1200 f/s for 200 gr. @ 1100 f/s or a bit more. Hodgdon reports 1142 f/s with their 8.2/CFE-Pistol/200gr. LSWC, but it's from a test barrel, and "real gun" velocities seem to dip under 1100 f/s. IF, with a .45 Super "upgrade" (sans "fully supported/ramped barrel"), I could get 1100 - 1150 f/s without stretching or battering anything (much), I'd be inclined to try the "upgrade".
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I think your actual FPS with the gold dot is a little lower, but
with 185 gr. .45 Super XTP/JHP's you do get 1300 FPS from a
5' 1911 - AND The XTP works quite well at higher velocities.
 

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Firing Pins

I apologize for resurrecting a zombie thread, but I am hoping to hear from original participants.

I am in the process of converting to 45 Super on an Norinco frame. In my research, there were some comments about primer flow and the answer to that would be a slightly-longer-than-spec firing pin or use rifle primers instead of pistol primers. The 450 SMC, essentially a 45 Super case with a small primer pocket, was developed partly to address this issue.

So, my question is, are any of you who have made the change to 45 Super experiencing primer flow around your standard firing pins?
 

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Yep, 10mm lost all its appeal to me after I found out any .45 gun can run super easily. My carry is setup for .450 SMC and with the comp a [email protected] is lighter than a .45 ball round in terms of felt recoil and flip.

10mm is snappier with a more abrupt recoil and the ammo costs more to do less, I can load light and fast or super heavy in .45 woth a huge range ([email protected] up to [email protected]) without having to change a single part on my comped guns and only a recoil spring on my normal ones. My .460 makes normal spec .45 feel like .380 with no rise at all and doesn't need a spring change to use anything at above stock .45 power.

A comp fixes any risks, keeps the gun locked up longer and lowers cycle energy dramatically and totally removes muzzle rise. My gun has seen 1000s of .45+P ([email protected]) without any real wear and also a good amount of 185 stuff when I'm feeling lower recoil than 230.
 

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I have not played a lot with it yet. I remember back in the 70s some friends were cutting down 30-06 (or was it 308?) rifle brass and shooting it in old Colt 1911s. The fact the guys still have two hands and two eyes is a testimony to the strength of the 1911 design.

Of course guys like that gave us the 451 Detonics and then later the 45 Super. It does bother me that the 45 Super case is the same length as the 45 ACP where the 451 Detonics was a little longer so it would not chamber in a 45 ACP pistol. It does concern me what happens when 45 Super is shot by someone who does not know what it is in an old Colt Gold Cup with the lightened frame and weak target spring or even a classic Commander with the lightened slide.

All I would say is label your ammo well. I have 45 Colt (which some people call 45 Long Colt). Some I load for old Colt SA revolvers, other for Ruger Blackhawk revolvers and still other rounds for my Marlin rifle in 45 Colt.
It won't do anything. I've done it and the whole point of super brass is to survive under those conditions.
 

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Sounds VERY interesting. So if understand you correctly, your factory .45 ACP barrel is good to go with the .45 Super round, all you did was add the parts mentioned?

I had a Glock 20 in 10mm that I used to carry as a woods gun. Sold it last year, they are just too darn big for my hands. I have a Glock 21 as well and wondered about a .45 Super conversion for it at times but it's still a big gun.

I have a USGI Ithaca 1911 that I love shooting and it's proven to be 100% reliable. It's not in any way collectible, it's been refinished.

Would a WWII era 1911 gun in excellent shape overall be a safe and reliable candidate for the .45 Super?
No, you risk cracking it. Stick to modern guns for that.
 

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I apologize for resurrecting a zombie thread, but I am hoping to hear from original participants.

I am in the process of converting to 45 Super on an Norinco frame. In my research, there were some comments about primer flow and the answer to that would be a slightly-longer-than-spec firing pin or use rifle primers instead of pistol primers. The 450 SMC, essentially a 45 Super case with a small primer pocket, was developed partly to address this issue.

So, my question is, are any of you who have made the change to 45 Super experiencing primer flow around your standard firing pins?
No. You need a proper size pin that fills the breechface hole correctly and a flat, properly speced breechface. .450 SMC helps a little bit it's masking a fit issue.
 

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No. You need a proper size pin that fills the breechface hole correctly and a flat, properly speced breechface. .450 SMC helps a little bit it's masking a fit issue.
In that case, what is a good source of oversized firing pins where I might obtain one to fit to my slide?
 
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