Try it with a comped gun, it's flatter than 230 ball ammo. The 160-185g super loads are fantastic at generating useable gas, less felt recoil and flip than 230g stuff..45 Super is not the choice for fast, controlled pairs.
The whole point of standard-pressure .45 ACP is excellent terminal ballistics without a lot of muzzle blast or recoil.
I'd never choose .45 Super as an anti-personnel round; for a "woods walk" gun, it would be near the top of my list.
I like where you're going and I traveled the same path some time ago, so let me save you some time and regret.I've been wanting a Kimber TLE/RL stainless 10mm for
a few years, but they only make it in "black". I emailed
them and was told to buy The Eclipse model, but I don't
like that model. I've looked at all the other nice stainless,
10mm 1911's on the market, but they're all over $1200,
and even for $1200 you get minimum features.
So I said, "SCREW THIS" and converted my Kimber TLE/RL
stainless .45 acp to .45 SUPER, which gives close to the
same ballistics as the 10mm; using Underwood .45 Super,
185 gr XTP/JHP's I get 1300/700 power, which matches
10mm 185 gr rounds AND I only needed to add $28 worth
of parts to my pistol.
1. 22# recoil spring & extra power firing pin spring $7
2. 25# mainspring $6
3. Flat firing pin stop plate $15
AND for added dependability I use 5% higher power magazine
springs, which increase function/reliability; especially using the
8 round followers in my magazines.
ALSO, to fire "lesser" .45 acp rounds I just need to easily switch
to a 18.5 recoil spring.
This setup in my TLE/RL fires like "butter" and (by the way) you
do NOT need a "fully supported/ramped barrel", like so many of
those with no real knowledge tell you online. The .45 Super cases
are plenty strong, and there is no "bulging" of the case. Now if
you wanted to go even hotter than the factory rounds, it would be
a good idea to go with a ramped barrel.
Underwood makes the best "higher power" rounds, in my opinion,
in several calibers, and charge HALF of "others" ammo. The nickel
cases, cannelured/swagged bullets and smokeless/low flash powders
are great. I also happen to think the XTP bullet is the best all around
I agree with most of this except that 10mm and .45 of the same momentum will subject the gun to the same forces with the exception of the 10mm having a sharper pressure spike and faster impulse. The breechface area doesn't matter since the .45 may have more area but at lower pressure and most of the time mathematically this leads to less force. The 10mm feels better to you since you like the higher peak impulse that occurs faster overall leading to a clean feeling cycle. A 230g HST+P and 180g full power 10mm in terms of stress on the gun are the same, and I've shot tons of the former through my 4 inch comp gun. Before that it was normal pressure 230 and a good bit of 185+P and it lasted a hair over 40k rounds before it was slightly loose (tighter than any colt/springer still) and I sent it back for retightening/refit and all that. Never have I broken any part and I have one malf to date, small 1911s can handle higher power loads just fine if they are built well to start with.I like where you're going and I traveled the same path some time ago, so let me save you some time and regret.
At equal energy loadings the .45 "Super" is on the ragged edge of being too much for the 1911 design regardless of frame construction, whereas the 10mm just feels powerful. The reason is bore diameter, or more precisely bore area and how it affects both recoil and slide energy.
The much larger area of the .451" slug versus .400" slug means a greater amount of force applied to the breech face - at equal energy. Thus, the .45 Super feels pretty sweet when shooting 185 grain slugs though around 700 lb-ft you start to feel uncomfortable shooting them regardless of mods. The 10mm at that energy feels composed.
So, the right answer to getting real power from the .45 Super is to forego it all together and jump directly into the .460 Rowland end of the pool. No, you won't do it for under $30, but the result will make you a lot happier from day one. Here's why:
The .460 Rowland is a genuine magnum power cartridge on par with standard-weight factory .44 magnum ammo - only you have eight with quick-change magazines in support.
With .460 Rowland ammo you have no doubt as to what you are shooting...the case is 1/16" longer and will not allow the slide to lock-up in a non-Rowland chamber. Thus no worries about hot-loaded .45 ACP or "Super" ammo finding its way into a non-modified gun - which would be VERY bad in a lot fewer shots than most realize!
The Clark .460 Rowland conversion is "turn-key" - even if you don't do anything more than install the conversion parts, you'll have a SAFE magnum power pistol. You can of course do the other things such as a flat-bottom firing pin stop, and reshape the firing pin nose from hemispherical to conical with an approximately 0.050" tip diameter. And you can explore Johnny Rowland's flat-wound dual-spring recoil system...You can safely fire Underwood's entire line of .460 Rowland ammo.
A compensated barrel adds just 1.75" and maybe an ounce and does an amazing job of redirecting gases to lower slide impulse and speed. This results in a surprisingly mild-shooting pistol that has you checking your loads with a chronograph to verify they are as powerful as stated - the gun does not kick at all like a .44 Magnum revolver of the same weight does - not even close. It is quite easy to rapid-fire a 1911 with Rowland conversion as fast as you would an ACP chambered version!
I started with the Glock conversion in a longslide configuration which is an almost non-event to shoot due to the massive slide and effective compensator. When I finally built a 1911 conversion I was surprised how quickly it became my favorite - excellent ergos, superb trigger, mild recoil unlike any magnum you've ever shot. It's nothing to shoot a 100-150 rounds of full-power .460 Rowland ammo in a session, compared to firing maybe a few cylinders of .44 magnum from a comparable weight revolver.
Many who opt to go .45 Super do so because they don't know anything about the .460 Rowland (other than internet lore spread mostly by those who've never shot one), but the truth is, the .45 Super is an unnecessary "half-step" that offers no real power gain over the 10mm while being VERY hard on the gun and grossly "out of time" in terms of slide speed to feed speed.
Of course you can shoot .45 Super from a .460 Rowland chamber, but the thing about compensated guns is they "like" to run hot - meaning large charges of slow-burning powder which makes the comp more effective. There is very little reason to shoot a "mid-power" .45 Super load in a .460 Rowland conversion. Just shoot .45 auto or .460 Rowland.
I currently have a Clark conversion mounted to a Kimber Target Classic II and it's wonderfully accurate, soft-shooter!
^You're talking about the 450 Short Magnum, also called the 45 Super Comp, me i have SR1911 CMD with 20# recoil spring that i shoot 185 gr XTP 45 Super, also i setting up for 400 Cor-Bon for SD..45 Super cases do have .45 SUPER stamped on them . . .
There was another cartridge that was very similar to .45 Super, but the cases used small primers. That was another means of helping ensure that cases and loads didn't get mixed-up, but, we now have ACP cases with small primers, so, we're back to reading headstamps.
If you fired a .45 Super round in a Commander, you'd certainly know it, and I'd hope you did some investigating before firing another.
A super load in .45 brass and a normal gun could indeed end really badly.....Although the .45 super is a nice idea, l do not want the hassle of having to keep track of the nearly identical cases of .45 super vs. .45acp cases. I have and shoot several 1911 guns in .45acp, and my worst fear would be to accidently load a hot .45super reload in a standard pressure .45acp case......the end result may be catastrophic for my gun and hands....
I have no need for a very stout recoiling .45super load......it would be interesting as a hunting load, but I no longer hunt. When I did hunt, it was for putting meat in the freezer, so I always used a very accurate rifle, and had a 44 mag holstered on my hip.
I know my .38 super +P+ reloads in my STI 2011 Commander work very well, and produce over 500 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle.....it is like shooting a low end .357 magnum round, but has considerably less muzzle flip compared to shooting a revolver. I like the idea of the .45super, but don't want the hassle of keeping the brass properly sorted with the near identical .45acp brass.....to each their own!
What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?Just confirms my concern about the low standards for getting into l.e. Must be the only "profession" where an agency was sued, because an applicant was rejected, because his IQ was too high.:biglaugh: BTW, how many deer did you lose, because you were using hollow points??
Note he likes to use the word proletariat....which means a "working class person, generally a laborer." He has used the word "proletariat" in many instances on this Forum. His comments are usually negative if he doesn't agree with the post, nor does he ever defend his derisive comments.I love the babble of the ignorant proletariat!
I'm going to dele my offending post,What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?
Sorry if I'm being crass but it's been a persistent theme with you.
I was going to delete my offending post, but can't.What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?
Sorry if I'm being crass but it's been a persistent theme with you.
You can't edit your own posts past 24 hours after making them, and only moderators/admins can delete posts. I have deleted the post for you, but be advised I did not delete the posts that quoted it. Offensive posts against LEO's in general are painted with a broad brush, and many members (both L.E. and non-L.E.) find them insulting, so do not deride fellow forum members.I was going to delete my offending post, but can't.