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.45 Super in a 1911.....

IMHO, any 1911 that shoots the .45super cartridge that throws the cases 10 ft. from the shooter, seems excessive. A gun that throws the brass 10 feet away in ANY 1911, in any caliber, is more often than not, exhibiting excessive slide velocity. A 1911 shooter that uses a caliber of ammo that creates excessive slide velocity means the slide slam shut harder than necessary when the gun cycles. Often times, this will cause problems with sight tracking, and when the slide slams shut, the muzzle may dip. When firing fast controlled pairs, if the second shot is 4-6" lower than the first shot, the muzzle may be dipping from the slide slamming closed. If it was my 1911 gun, I would increase the main spring to a 26# or possibly heavier to reduce the slide velocity to a more acceptable level. I built a 1911 Commander in .38 super, and the hot reloads I made for the gun was causing the brass to eject about 8-9ft. away. I ended up using a 26# mainspring, and the gun functioned very well and the brass ejected in the 4-6ft. range. The amount of energy required to cock the hammer of a 1911 with a heavier mainspring will effectively reduce the slide velocity.....however there are many variables that affect slide velocity, such as how tight the gun locks up, how tight the slide fit, using a flat firing pin stop plate, etc. But I honestly believe any 1911, (which uses the "short recoil system") would be benefitted by a slide velocity that ejects the cases no more than 4-6 feet...… Using a polymer recoil shock buffer should not be necessary with lower slide velocity, and recoil buffers may tear and cause the gun to jam.....I used them in USPSA competition and found this out the hard way! :) I would not use a shock buff for a self defense gun.....
 

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.45 Super is not the choice for fast, controlled pairs.
The whole point of standard-pressure .45 ACP is excellent terminal ballistics without a lot of muzzle blast or recoil.
I'd never choose .45 Super as an anti-personnel round; for a "woods walk" gun, it would be near the top of my list.
 

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.45 Super is not the choice for fast, controlled pairs.
The whole point of standard-pressure .45 ACP is excellent terminal ballistics without a lot of muzzle blast or recoil.
I'd never choose .45 Super as an anti-personnel round; for a "woods walk" gun, it would be near the top of my list.
Try it with a comped gun, it's flatter than 230 ball ammo. The 160-185g super loads are fantastic at generating useable gas, less felt recoil and flip than 230g stuff.

My favorite load is .450 SMC [email protected], ZERO rise and the same momentum as HST 230+P but way nicer to shoot.
 

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I have a S&W 645 I fire .45 super in. I had a steel guide rod made and changed the mainspring to a 26lb. I load 9.5gr Alliant Power Pistol under a cast Lyman 452460 that is powder coated and lubed with 50/50 lube.

Primers look good, no case bulge. The cases resize easily. Accuracy is very good and hits hard!

The 645 is a big pistol, built like a tank. I think it is an ideal pistol for .45 super.
 

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I've been wanting a Kimber TLE/RL stainless 10mm for
a few years, but they only make it in "black". I emailed
them and was told to buy The Eclipse model, but I don't
like that model. I've looked at all the other nice stainless,
10mm 1911's on the market, but they're all over $1200,
and even for $1200 you get minimum features.

So I said, "SCREW THIS" and converted my Kimber TLE/RL
stainless .45 acp to .45 SUPER, which gives close to the
same ballistics as the 10mm; using Underwood .45 Super,
185 gr XTP/JHP's I get 1300/700 power, which matches
10mm 185 gr rounds AND I only needed to add $28 worth
of parts to my pistol.

Parts -
1. 22# recoil spring & extra power firing pin spring $7
2. 25# mainspring $6
3. Flat firing pin stop plate $15

AND for added dependability I use 5% higher power magazine
springs, which increase function/reliability; especially using the
8 round followers in my magazines.

ALSO, to fire "lesser" .45 acp rounds I just need to easily switch
to a 18.5 recoil spring.

This setup in my TLE/RL fires like "butter" and (by the way) you
do NOT need a "fully supported/ramped barrel", like so many of
those with no real knowledge tell you online. The .45 Super cases
are plenty strong, and there is no "bulging" of the case. Now if
you wanted to go even hotter than the factory rounds, it would be
a good idea to go with a ramped barrel.

Underwood makes the best "higher power" rounds, in my opinion,
in several calibers, and charge HALF of "others" ammo. The nickel
cases, cannelured/swagged bullets and smokeless/low flash powders
are great. I also happen to think the XTP bullet is the best all around
available today.



I like where you're going and I traveled the same path some time ago, so let me save you some time and regret.
At equal energy loadings the .45 "Super" is on the ragged edge of being too much for the 1911 design regardless of frame construction, whereas the 10mm just feels powerful. The reason is bore diameter, or more precisely bore area and how it affects both recoil and slide energy.

The much larger area of the .451" slug versus .400" slug means a greater amount of force applied to the breech face - at equal energy. Thus, the .45 Super feels pretty sweet when shooting 185 grain slugs though around 700 lb-ft you start to feel uncomfortable shooting them regardless of mods. The 10mm at that energy feels composed.

So, the right answer to getting real power from the .45 Super is to forego it all together and jump directly into the .460 Rowland end of the pool. No, you won't do it for under $30, but the result will make you a lot happier from day one. Here's why:

The .460 Rowland is a genuine magnum power cartridge on par with standard-weight factory .44 magnum ammo - only you have eight with quick-change magazines in support.
With .460 Rowland ammo you have no doubt as to what you are shooting...the case is 1/16" longer and will not allow the slide to lock-up in a non-Rowland chamber. Thus no worries about hot-loaded .45 ACP or "Super" ammo finding its way into a non-modified gun - which would be VERY bad in a lot fewer shots than most realize!

The Clark .460 Rowland conversion is "turn-key" - even if you don't do anything more than install the conversion parts, you'll have a SAFE magnum power pistol. You can of course do the other things such as a flat-bottom firing pin stop, and reshape the firing pin nose from hemispherical to conical with an approximately 0.050" tip diameter. And you can explore Johnny Rowland's flat-wound dual-spring recoil system...You can safely fire Underwood's entire line of .460 Rowland ammo.

A compensated barrel adds just 1.75" and maybe an ounce and does an amazing job of redirecting gases to lower slide impulse and speed. This results in a surprisingly mild-shooting pistol that has you checking your loads with a chronograph to verify they are as powerful as stated - the gun does not kick at all like a .44 Magnum revolver of the same weight does - not even close. It is quite easy to rapid-fire a 1911 with Rowland conversion as fast as you would an ACP chambered version!

I started with the Glock conversion in a longslide configuration which is an almost non-event to shoot due to the massive slide and effective compensator. When I finally built a 1911 conversion I was surprised how quickly it became my favorite - excellent ergos, superb trigger, mild recoil unlike any magnum you've ever shot. It's nothing to shoot a 100-150 rounds of full-power .460 Rowland ammo in a session, compared to firing maybe a few cylinders of .44 magnum from a comparable weight revolver.

Many who opt to go .45 Super do so because they don't know anything about the .460 Rowland (other than internet lore spread mostly by those who've never shot one), but the truth is, the .45 Super is an unnecessary "half-step" that offers no real power gain over the 10mm while being VERY hard on the gun and grossly "out of time" in terms of slide speed to feed speed.

Of course you can shoot .45 Super from a .460 Rowland chamber, but the thing about compensated guns is they "like" to run hot - meaning large charges of slow-burning powder which makes the comp more effective. There is very little reason to shoot a "mid-power" .45 Super load in a .460 Rowland conversion. Just shoot .45 auto or .460 Rowland.

I currently have a Clark conversion mounted to a Kimber Target Classic II and it's wonderfully accurate, soft-shooter!
 

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I like where you're going and I traveled the same path some time ago, so let me save you some time and regret.
At equal energy loadings the .45 "Super" is on the ragged edge of being too much for the 1911 design regardless of frame construction, whereas the 10mm just feels powerful. The reason is bore diameter, or more precisely bore area and how it affects both recoil and slide energy.

The much larger area of the .451" slug versus .400" slug means a greater amount of force applied to the breech face - at equal energy. Thus, the .45 Super feels pretty sweet when shooting 185 grain slugs though around 700 lb-ft you start to feel uncomfortable shooting them regardless of mods. The 10mm at that energy feels composed.

So, the right answer to getting real power from the .45 Super is to forego it all together and jump directly into the .460 Rowland end of the pool. No, you won't do it for under $30, but the result will make you a lot happier from day one. Here's why:

The .460 Rowland is a genuine magnum power cartridge on par with standard-weight factory .44 magnum ammo - only you have eight with quick-change magazines in support.
With .460 Rowland ammo you have no doubt as to what you are shooting...the case is 1/16" longer and will not allow the slide to lock-up in a non-Rowland chamber. Thus no worries about hot-loaded .45 ACP or "Super" ammo finding its way into a non-modified gun - which would be VERY bad in a lot fewer shots than most realize!

The Clark .460 Rowland conversion is "turn-key" - even if you don't do anything more than install the conversion parts, you'll have a SAFE magnum power pistol. You can of course do the other things such as a flat-bottom firing pin stop, and reshape the firing pin nose from hemispherical to conical with an approximately 0.050" tip diameter. And you can explore Johnny Rowland's flat-wound dual-spring recoil system...You can safely fire Underwood's entire line of .460 Rowland ammo.

A compensated barrel adds just 1.75" and maybe an ounce and does an amazing job of redirecting gases to lower slide impulse and speed. This results in a surprisingly mild-shooting pistol that has you checking your loads with a chronograph to verify they are as powerful as stated - the gun does not kick at all like a .44 Magnum revolver of the same weight does - not even close. It is quite easy to rapid-fire a 1911 with Rowland conversion as fast as you would an ACP chambered version!

I started with the Glock conversion in a longslide configuration which is an almost non-event to shoot due to the massive slide and effective compensator. When I finally built a 1911 conversion I was surprised how quickly it became my favorite - excellent ergos, superb trigger, mild recoil unlike any magnum you've ever shot. It's nothing to shoot a 100-150 rounds of full-power .460 Rowland ammo in a session, compared to firing maybe a few cylinders of .44 magnum from a comparable weight revolver.

Many who opt to go .45 Super do so because they don't know anything about the .460 Rowland (other than internet lore spread mostly by those who've never shot one), but the truth is, the .45 Super is an unnecessary "half-step" that offers no real power gain over the 10mm while being VERY hard on the gun and grossly "out of time" in terms of slide speed to feed speed.

Of course you can shoot .45 Super from a .460 Rowland chamber, but the thing about compensated guns is they "like" to run hot - meaning large charges of slow-burning powder which makes the comp more effective. There is very little reason to shoot a "mid-power" .45 Super load in a .460 Rowland conversion. Just shoot .45 auto or .460 Rowland.

I currently have a Clark conversion mounted to a Kimber Target Classic II and it's wonderfully accurate, soft-shooter!
I agree with most of this except that 10mm and .45 of the same momentum will subject the gun to the same forces with the exception of the 10mm having a sharper pressure spike and faster impulse. The breechface area doesn't matter since the .45 may have more area but at lower pressure and most of the time mathematically this leads to less force. The 10mm feels better to you since you like the higher peak impulse that occurs faster overall leading to a clean feeling cycle. A 230g HST+P and 180g full power 10mm in terms of stress on the gun are the same, and I've shot tons of the former through my 4 inch comp gun. Before that it was normal pressure 230 and a good bit of 185+P and it lasted a hair over 40k rounds before it was slightly loose (tighter than any colt/springer still) and I sent it back for retightening/refit and all that. Never have I broken any part and I have one malf to date, small 1911s can handle higher power loads just fine if they are built well to start with.

All the smaller guns should have flat FPS and damn strong springs (I prefer 22 recoil and 25 main) even for .45 shooting as it helps them have great timing and gives ability to use any mag win any ammo.......assuming the gun is built properly

The point of .45 super is in carry size guns, or in non-comped full-size guns with 22lb recoil and 23lb mains like my Ed Brown that are setup for it. .460 guns can obviously handle it all and with very low recoil due to the multiple expansion baffles on hand to use the gas. Problem is I and most others may find fully concealing a full-size .460 a bit of an annoyance and the 1st shot speed will be hampered by a long ass setup like that.
 

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.45 Super cases do have .45 SUPER stamped on them . . .

There was another cartridge that was very similar to .45 Super, but the cases used small primers. That was another means of helping ensure that cases and loads didn't get mixed-up, but, we now have ACP cases with small primers, so, we're back to reading headstamps.

If you fired a .45 Super round in a Commander, you'd certainly know it, and I'd hope you did some investigating before firing another.
^You're talking about the 450 Short Magnum, also called the 45 Super Comp, me i have SR1911 CMD with 20# recoil spring that i shoot 185 gr XTP 45 Super, also i setting up for 400 Cor-Bon for SD.
 

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.45 super in a 1911

Although the .45 super is a nice idea, l do not want the hassle of having to keep track of the nearly identical cases of .45 super vs. .45acp cases. I have and shoot several 1911 guns in .45acp, and my worst fear would be to accidently load a hot .45super reload in a standard pressure .45acp case......the end result may be catastrophic for my gun and hands....:eek:

I have no need for a very stout recoiling .45super load......it would be interesting as a hunting load, but I no longer hunt. When I did hunt, it was for putting meat in the freezer, so I always used a very accurate rifle, and had a 44 mag holstered on my hip.

I know my .38 super +P+ reloads in my STI 2011 Commander work very well, and produce over 500 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle.....it is like shooting a low end .357 magnum round, but has considerably less muzzle flip compared to shooting a revolver. I like the idea of the .45super, but don't want the hassle of keeping the brass properly sorted with the near identical .45acp brass.....to each their own! :)
 

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Although the .45 super is a nice idea, l do not want the hassle of having to keep track of the nearly identical cases of .45 super vs. .45acp cases. I have and shoot several 1911 guns in .45acp, and my worst fear would be to accidently load a hot .45super reload in a standard pressure .45acp case......the end result may be catastrophic for my gun and hands....:eek:

I have no need for a very stout recoiling .45super load......it would be interesting as a hunting load, but I no longer hunt. When I did hunt, it was for putting meat in the freezer, so I always used a very accurate rifle, and had a 44 mag holstered on my hip.

I know my .38 super +P+ reloads in my STI 2011 Commander work very well, and produce over 500 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle.....it is like shooting a low end .357 magnum round, but has considerably less muzzle flip compared to shooting a revolver. I like the idea of the .45super, but don't want the hassle of keeping the brass properly sorted with the near identical .45acp brass.....to each their own! :)
A super load in .45 brass and a normal gun could indeed end really badly.....
 

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Just confirms my concern about the low standards for getting into l.e.:eek: Must be the only "profession" where an agency was sued, because an applicant was rejected, because his IQ was too high.:biglaugh: BTW, how many deer did you lose, because you were using hollow points??
What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?

Sorry if I'm being crass but it's been a persistent theme with you.
 

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I have a S&W 645 and a 4506 that have been upgraded to .45 Super.

I think that the round really shines with heavier bullets. After quite a bit of experimentation. I have found that the Sierra 260 grain jhp, bullet # 4481. That this on top of 8 grains of Power pistol. This is the load that I have been looking for, a game load obviously. This will basically turn a coyote or a wild hog inside out in fairly short order.

I have not been able to Chrono this load to date. But field results are impressive. And yes Walter tends to go off of his meds from time to time.
 

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WalterGC posts.....

One of his posts on this thread.....

I love the babble of the ignorant proletariat!
Note he likes to use the word proletariat....which means a "working class person, generally a laborer." He has used the word "proletariat" in many instances on this Forum. His comments are usually negative if he doesn't agree with the post, nor does he ever defend his derisive comments.

He is more of a troll on this Forum, looking to create controversy......I do not remember his posts contributing to any positive purpose.....:( His comments about the low standard of hiring law enforcement officers is ridiculous......I know in Florida there is thorough testing, thorough training, and thorough background checks.....and I would assume they do the same in Georgia, which is Walter's home state.....I was in law enforcement, a former Deputy Sheriff in the Orlando area, and have the greatest respect for LE officers and the work they do......
 

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What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?

Sorry if I'm being crass but it's been a persistent theme with you.
I'm going to dele my offending post,
 

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What is wrong with you? All your posts contribute nearly no useful data and you seem to enjoy deriding everyone. Even then you don't really even give a valid counter argument so what is the point of you saying anything?

Sorry if I'm being crass but it's been a persistent theme with you.
I was going to delete my offending post, but can't.
 

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I was going to delete my offending post, but can't.
You can't edit your own posts past 24 hours after making them, and only moderators/admins can delete posts. I have deleted the post for you, but be advised I did not delete the posts that quoted it. Offensive posts against LEO's in general are painted with a broad brush, and many members (both L.E. and non-L.E.) find them insulting, so do not deride fellow forum members.
 
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