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Discussion Starter #1
I know im gonna get told to buy a FA or a Ruger or some such, but thats not in the scope of things i want to do right now.

My question is, does anyone make a decent .45 colt round that is standard pressure. Im going to be purchasing a Berreta Stampede, it will be a hiking,camping,and when i get more gear CAS gun. I know that there is heavy loads, but is there any standard pressure that will do the job with out the harsh recoil.

The only load i know of, is from buffalow bore, they have a 255grain at 950fps. My only concern is it is a soft lead thats gaschecked. Say im camping and am attacked by a black bear.(has happend once already to a family member) will that buffalow bore round be enough. It is listed as a standard pressure, good for use in any post 1945 SAA.

I have done alot of reasearch and just cant find any good ammo. Almost all of it is lightly loaded to cas levels.

Then there is the speer gold dot hp .45colt. Its a 250grain gdhp moving at 900fps, with about 450ftlbs. Im leaning twords that round, due to the fact that is a good named producer. But its a Jhp and will expand and not penetrate as far as i have been told i need for bears that i have experianced. I wounder if its enough?

I know i could just by a FA and be done with it, but i dont want that yet. I know the good old single action army platform is good for killin 2 legged critters. I just want a decent load for my stampede, seeing as that is going to be my camping and hiking gun. I know in the old days, it was used to kill lots of things, its just to bad all the standard power loads have been bastardized by CAS in to wimp rounds.

I do reload, but i do not find it enjoyable, id much rather get a factory loading. I hope im making sense, i just dont wanna reload. i just want something factory loaded i can count on. I love the looks of the classic saa platform, and am looking for appropriate loads that work in its limitations.
 

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.45 Colt loads

The reason ".45 Colt" loads are weak is because the guns designed to fire them are weak. They were designed to fire the old blackpowder cartridge, then they made it smokeless, but had to make it weak because if it was powerful and fired in the old blackpowder guns they'd explode. So, your standard factory .45 LC loadings will be safe in any gun chambered in .45 LC (Like your Beretta Stampede). I'm not a historian, but that's the basics.

Then there is a whole new type of gun - Ruger, T/C, Freedom Arms. These guns can easily handle 30,000 C.U.P. You can get .44 Magnum performance with lower pressure because of the increased surface area. There's lots of good reading on this. I have a Ruger in .45 LC that I'm working up some handloads for - I'm not even close to max loadings and I've got a 360 grain WFNGC going 1150 fps....plenty of gumption for just about any animal out there. If I was back home walking in the woods, this would be the gun I'd have with me.

There are manufacturers who make loads that are labeled ".45 LC Ruger or T/C only" IIRC. If you shoot these in your Beretta you will likely be seriously injured.

To summarize - if you are unhappy with the level of performance of the CAA loads for .45 LC, get a gun that can shoot the modern versions. Just my opinion! I'm not an expert.

Austin
 

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Watch out for the "newer" Ruger's too I understand the Vaqueros are now being built on a smaller .357 size frame and are only for use with wimpy CAS loads.....
 

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The reason ".45 Colt" loads are weak is because the guns designed to fire them are weak. They were designed to fire the old blackpowder cartridge, then they made it smokeless, but had to make it weak because if it was powerful and fired in the old blackpowder guns they'd explode. So, your standard factory .45 LC loadings will be safe in any gun chambered in .45 LC (Like your Beretta Stampede). I'm not a historian, but that's the basics.

Then there is a whole new type of gun - Ruger, T/C, Freedom Arms. These guns can easily handle 30,000 C.U.P. You can get .44 Magnum performance with lower pressure because of the increased surface area. There's lots of good reading on this. I have a Ruger in .45 LC that I'm working up some handloads for - I'm not even close to max loadings and I've got a 360 grain WFNGC going 1150 fps....plenty of gumption for just about any animal out there. If I was back home walking in the woods, this would be the gun I'd have with me.

There are manufacturers who make loads that are labeled ".45 LC Ruger or T/C only" IIRC. If you shoot these in your Beretta you will likely be seriously injured.

To summarize - if you are unhappy with the level of performance of the CAA loads for .45 LC, get a gun that can shoot the modern versions. Just my opinion! I'm not an expert.

Austin
Where do you get your firearm information? Yes, there are the FA and Ruger only loads, but the last time I checked, every .45LC handgun on the current market is quite capable of handling .45LC ammo that is loaded to SAMI specification, even the cheap Italian knockoffs, and has been since back in the 80's. The .45LC has come a long way since the black powder days. If there is a shortage of commercial ammo for it, it's because the caliber is mainly used by CAS shooters. It is an excellent round, although not extremely popular, there are quite a few people who shoot it as a hunting round, but then you are down to rolling your own. If there is a gun that will not handle standard SAMI spec ammo, I would certainly pass on it... The round can be loaded to near .44Mag effectiveness and the N frame Smiths handle it very well..
As far as the new Model Ruger Vaqueros.. They are built on a smaller frame and will not handle the Ruger Only loads, but will handle everthing loaded to current specs..
 

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Chamber pressure (and the time duration of the spike) are what push the bullet down the barrel and determine the speed of bullet X. If you want your 300 grain slug to exit at over 1,000 FPS you will pay for it with higher pressure. No getting around that. See Keith, "On Handguns" for early experiments with .45 Colt loads with pre-1950 guns. Note also he blew up several and even lost a finger to one. All of the currently manufactured guns can duplicate those performances, some such as the Taurus .454 can well better those pressures. Your problem is wanting a high pressure, but commercially available, ammo. Corbin is about the only manufacturer I can think of willing to step into that legal nightmare. I don't even know if they still make their 'for hunting only with certain guns' .45 ammo. If you want a 230 - 250 grain bullet at 1200 - 1400 (or even much faster) fps building your own is the only way you can go. Careful selection of the weapon then becomes very important if you don't wish to be known as "3 fingers, or, one eye."
 

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Kimberguy2004 - I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Austin
What? That modern producton firearms won't handle SAMI spec .45LC pressures.. Oh well.. Think what you like..
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
So it looks like im stuck getting something bigger... Its a shame. I really love the Looks of the SAA. I dont l ike the looks of the guns with the adjustable sights, and that huge front sight.

I was doing some reading, the lastest handloader magazine. It appears that the EAA Bounty hunter can handle some of the bigger loads. According to the mag, it can handle the 300gr moving over 1000fps. It also looks like the SAA.

Thats what i really want, I want something that looks like the saa, dosent have those ugly sights that are found on the stronger guns, something that looks traditional, and capable of firing loads i can depend on.

THo, i do wonder tho. The guys of old made due with the factory loads. I bet the remington 250gr load and the speer load will take deers and what not, if shot from close range. AS will the buffalo bore heavy standard pressure loads.

My big reason for wanting a standard pressure .45colt was, i didnt want harsh and uncomfortable recoil. I have shot everything up to .454 casul. While it wasnt overly abusive, i didnt like the massive recoil. It was impossible to make quick follow up shots.

So it looks like my choices are, EAA bounty hunter in 45colt or 44mag, or getting a ruger black hawk, in the white, with no sights cut into it, and having C&S custom make some sights for it. Add a New Vaq hammer, and finish it to look like a slightly larger SAA. Or just put a OLd model Vaquero barrel on it. Id get a old model vaquero, but i heard they have issues with the cylinder lining up for loading and unloading.

EDIT.

Question, Is a 265Grain at 1100-1200fps enough for what i want, both 2legged and 4legged pest controll, with out harsh recoil. Its a corbon hunting load.
 

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You might consider a 44 instead of the 45 on the SAA copy. Elmer Keith recognized the strength advantage of the 44 over the 45 in the SAA and used it....
 

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You might consider a 44 instead of the 45 on the SAA copy. Elmer Keith recognized the strength advantage of the 44 over the 45 in the SAA and used it....
Also, you will have a much broader selection of heavy loads to choose from,
though fewer CAS loads (44 SPC). I'm not sure what Austin and Kimberguy
are fighting over.

The source of your delima maybe that the needs for a bear gun and for a
CAS gun are just too different to accomplish in one gun, and you'll
have to buy more than one. If you buy more than one, they can be
different calibers based on needs.


Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #15
40, I know. If they would only make a gun with a frame that looks like the SAA, but slightly beefier to handle the stronger pressures, but looks like a SAA id be happy. Right now the EAA bounty hunter is the only gun that does that, but its got mixed reviews here and there and everywhere.

Looks like ill never own a six gun, seeing as i dont want to have to purchase a crap load of them just to have what i want.
 

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The SAMI specs are made to keep people safe - loads to SAMI specs will be safe in guns chambered in .45 LC....which is why they are "weak" loads - they are safe in all guns. Some guns can handle more than SAMI spec pressures - like the strong Rugers, T/Cs, and FAs for instance. SAMI spec pressures - which are <12,000 C.U.P. IIRC - will duplicate ballistics you'd get with black powder. A 250 grain bullet doing 850-900fps. If you bump the pressure up to around 30,000 you will destroy lots of old guns - but not the strong Rugers, T/Cs, and FAs etc...

Mordis - I'd look at a Ruger Blackhawk or Bisley. http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=447&return=Y

I got my Bisley Stainless 5.5" Blackhawk in .45 LC about a year ago - its a nice gun, especially for the price. The Bisley grip really helps with recoil for me - some people prefer to let the gun "roll" in their hand with the standard grip.

Just my $0.02

Austin
 

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The SAMI specs are made to keep people safe - loads to SAMI specs will be safe in guns chambered in .45 LC....which is why they are "weak" loads - they are safe in all guns.
There are weak loads, as in SAMII Loads, and there are cowboy loads that are even weaker still. A full house SAMMI load, not over pressure but right up at near the SAMMI spec limit, is a pretty good thumper. There are loads within SAMMI specs that will push a 250 grain slug to slightly over 1000 fps, and all modern weapons chambered for the 45 should handle that just fine.

Hank
 

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Sir, if you're worried about bears, stay away from hollowpoints. You want serious penetration (through heavy hide, bone, etc.), and hollowpoints can't be counted on for that. Buffalo Bore's lead gas-checked bullet will suffice, though a hard cast semi-wadcutter would be better IMHO.

I don't understand your aversion to handloading, especially if you're already set up for it. It's not like you need to crank out thousands of rounds--just load 50 or so with good 255-grain semi-wadcutters at 900 fps and use store-bought stuff for practice. Regarding "harsh recoil," any load (even at standard pressure) that's sufficient for bears will have significant recoil. There's no free lunch.

The guys recommending FAs and Rugers make a good point; you have a larger safety margin with the stronger guns, and they'll tolerate bigger loads. If it's the adjustable sights you object to, an Old Model Vaquero in .45 Colt will handle the big loads just fine while still looking traditional. I ran some pretty warm loads through mine, and it handled them with no problems. These guns can be found used at reasonable prices. FAs can also be had with fixed sights, though at a much higher price than the Ruger.

JMHO, FWIW.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 

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Ron H. is absolutely right about the need for penetration. I would recommend the heaviest bullet you can find. Also, one with big meplat (the flat face of the bullet). The most common style is probably the SWC, but there are others that should work well too. Mainly just stay away from the round nose flat points that are common in CAS as well as jacketed soft or hollow points.

Something else you may want to consider instead of the Beretta Stampede, is Ruger's older style Vaquero. The New Vaquero is a Colt sized frame, but the old, original Vaquero was (I believe) pretty much a blackhawk without the adjustable sights. This means it's stronger than the New Vaquero and would handle the "Ruger only" loads listed in many reloading manuals as well as the +P loads from Cor-bon and Garrett. You should be able to push a 300 grain bullet to at least 1000 fps safely, probably even a bit faster, and that would do wonderfully for black bear assuming proper bullet placement.

Mike
 
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