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Discussion Starter #21
I never understood this type of thinking. Basing your EDC gun and spare magazines on the average shooting leaves out the "other" types of shooting incidents that will get you killed. I always live by that adage "Pray for the best, but, plan for the worst." If you're prepared for the worst case scenario you will be better prepared to survive than someone who only plans for the best case scenarios. In most cases one shot will usually stop an aggressor. But, in worst case scenarios, even large caliber handguns have not stopped an attacker. And then what do you do if there are multiple attackers?

There are plenty of incidents where an attacker had been shot multiple times and continued their murderous assault. The 1986 FBI shoot out with the armored car robbers Mattix and Platt in Miami is one example that comes to mind. I'm not saying that you would be trying to stop and arrest such dangerous individuals. I am saying that in the event you unintentionally encountered such individuals and needed to use your EDC handgun to defend yourself, that your 2.3 rounds fired at someone like that isn't going to do anything other then get you killed. Especially If your life saving plan is to expect to only need to engage in a quick 2.3 shot incident. One of the FBI survivors of that Miami shootout, Special Agent Mireles, stated on a training video that the one thing that he learned that day is to carry as much ammunition for reloads as you possibly can.
Your theory is all good and well if you are law enforcement chasing after felons, and your job is to engage them.

The pivotal term I use is to "Engage". That makes all the difference in the world as far as planning for the worst and praying for the best.

In civilian self-defense... the name of the game is not to engage, but to avoid criminals. Hence, any gun, even a 5 shot snubby is better than being unarmed. I don't live in an open carry state, and so to me and other civilians, we are bound by the CCW laws to carry the smallest or rather, the largest most powerful weapon we can conceal without printing, or lest we could be charged with unlawful display of a firearm.
 

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Sorry, The bit about "and No One Calls 911 " is horsepucky. Shot Spotter was just first because it's instantaneous. The post title should be changed.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Sorry, The bit about "and No One Calls 911 " is horsepucky. Shot Spotter was just first because it's instantaneous. The post title should be changed.
Magman, got a link that proves this horsepucky theory you have?

The story ran locally on TV. The people interviewed were scared and one said they hit the floor when the shots were heard.

Police are and were asking the public repeatedly for anyone who witnessed or knows anything to come forward.

If 911 calls were made, they have not made that news public.
 

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Just picked up a tactical pump shotgun to add to the lineup. It will serve as an under the seat backup to my regular carry. Nothing says “Pha-Que” like 00 buckshot out of an 18” barrel pump gun, great sound effects add to the experience!
 

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Miami was such a good city before like 45 years ago lets think back to...oh wait the cocaine wars of the 70's and 80's. Big cities have always been dangerous, the crime has changed a bit but it's the same evil showing its face. Those of us willing to no longer yell at the TV or react to internet news are doing something about it in the form of public service. We could use help in the military and police. Who cares what the media and twitter think. Being unpopular doesn't scare me, shouldn't scare anyone.

Not calling anyone out or being disrespectful, just sharing how I personally feel.
This is what one would call great perspective, guess the youngins around here don't remember "that far back".

Separately guys, I wouldn't make too much about the 80 shots fired, it just means that these criminals have marksmanship skills on par with most police officers in Large-lefty Cities. That 9mm is corrupting the shooting skills of the entire eco-system. ;)
 

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Third world status coming soon.
With the Dems in charge, and Defund the Police taking over, its going to happen sooner than later.

No wonder guns are selling like hot cakes... you have to take charge of your own safety and security.

Do folks even know what defines a third world country? It's not just crime. Same goes for Defund the police. It's not about eliminating the police, not even close. It's about making better decisions on where monies go for law enforcement and civilian safety. We have always been responsible for our own safety and security, just as there has always been senseless killings like in the linked article. Back when I was a kid, it was zip guns. The escalation to high powered and high capacity weapons by criminals and police happened a century ago with prohibition. Up until the recent civil unrest combined with the pandemic, violent crime rates actually had been dropping in the country. It wasn't the Dems being in charge that made the biggest contribution to the recent rise in civil unrest either. Most of that happened before November of last year. People in high crime areas have always been afraid of getting "involved", basically because what happens in their neighborhood is being done by their neighbors. Folks are afraid of reprisals and revenge upon themselves and their loved ones. Easier to look the other way and pretend you didn;t see anything as long as it's not you getting shot. The same weekend of the linked shooting there were at least two other double homicides in the same area. Unfortunately it comes with the territory. Still, the Miami area is way down on the list when it comes to most dangerous Cities in the U.S. Surprisingly, Anchorage Alaska is number 1, and while Detroit is number 6, the city given the most crap about being high risk, Chicago, doesn't even make the top ten. It's obvious that our current method of law enforcement is not working that well and there needs to be changes made.
 

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Article mentioned nothing about 911 being called or not. Just speculation at this point. And this part of Miami has been an extension of Havana for decades. Most likely Gang/Drug related. The thing that surprises me is it made the news at all. In English anyway.
 

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Everyonne touts the virtues of carrying spare ammo and mags, and I agree wholeheartedly.. The crazed guy on PCP and charging you is likely to not even feel the double tap to the chest and he's on you in a flash. However, what is hardly ever mentioned is practicing mag reloads. A spare mag on your belt does you no good if you get killed fumbling with a mag change.
I shot bowling pins with a guy that was so fast you could watch him go across a string of pins and never tell when he did a mag change. He would sit in front of the TV and practice mag swaps while he was watching the tube until it became muscle memory.
Do a self-assessment and determine what your weak areas are and address them. We are living in desperate times and that causes desperate people to do desperate things.
 

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When cities have to employ "shotspotters" for these urban sewer areas, it kind of says it all.
 

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PolyMerman & M-Peltier -------------- WPLG Local 10 News quoted witness Elizabeth Stephens: " I just laid on the floor & called the police because I was afraid"

Again, The title of the post is incorrect. Should be fixed.
 

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This is all part of the intentional destruction of America by the Left. Look at this except from today's Forward Observer, the left is arming and planning for all out war against law enforcement and conservatives. They are going to be asking for reparations, they are going to come and take them. They are intentionally migrating to red states so they can flip them politically. They are planning for massive organized disruption of our cities with huge well organized and supplied armies. Read it for yourself.


InFocus: State electoral shifts and Low Intensity Conflict
One of the oft-cited effects of the pandemic is an increase in the number of Americans who can or will work from home. That means a continued exodus by workers from high tax, high cost states like California to lower cost, low tax states. Nearly nine million Americans relocated to another state in 2020, and Idaho was the most popular destination for movers, according to moving company Atlas Van Lines. In fact, Idaho topped the #1 moving destination for the fourth year in a row.
Last week, I spoke with a friend who is moving from Washington State to Montana for basically the same reason. He told me that houses are being scooped off the market as soon as they’re listed, with many being bought sight-unseen. I’m reminded of the several times prominent progressives have pointed out that a state like Montana — and two Senate seats — were decided by less than 100,000 votes in 2020. Maybe, they surmised, a major push to relocate progressives to Montana could flip the state.
We’re already seeing this trend in Georgia and Texas, states that can both be considered purple. Atlas President Barry Schellenburg says this relocation trend will continue. “People will be moving away from coastal areas where there is a higher cost of living and going to places like Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Tennessee.”
I wonder what conservatives with “Old America” sentiments will do when their states continue to flip blue like a line of colored dominoes due to out-of-staters bringing their “New America” sentiments with them. My guess is that higher levels of low intensity conflict will occur in states that are the most traditionally conservative, like Texas, but turning purple or blue over the next several election cycles. - S.C.

LOW INTENSITY CONFLICT INTSUM
Black Lives Matter group publishes “corking” protest tactic guide
Black Lives Matter (BLM) Bike Bloc PDX has posted a new guide detailing “corking” tactics for upcoming protests in 2021. The tactic involves utilizing teams of activists on bikes, motorcycles, and other vehicles to block off streets, escort marches, and impede the movement of law enforcement. The guide recommended that “corkers” use radio communications and body cameras while scouting routes ahead of protests. Organizers called for these activists to wear ballistic armor, carry medical gear, and wear “black bloc clothing.” (AC: Far Left groups used vehicles throughout 2020 to provide scouting capability, physical cover, logistical support, and mobility during disruptions. - M.B.)

Antifascists plan upcoming anti-ICE disruptions
On Saturday, 27 February, antifascists in Portland, Oregon will carry out a “direct action march” against immigration enforcement and deportations. The disruption will begin at the Fields Park in the Pearl District and organizers have instructed participants to be in black bloc. An anti-ICE disruption and caravan is also being planned in Atlanta, Georgia for Sunday, 28 February. (AC: Immigration & Customs Enforcement has become a frequent target for Far Left disruptions. In Portland, antifascists will likely march south through the city and arrive at the ICE building to clash with federal officers. Last night, antifascists lit a large fire outside the ICE building during a disruption. - M.B.)

Florida Leftists oppose state “anti-protest” bill
The Miami chapter of the Revolutionary Abolitionary Movement (RAM) and Fort Lauderdale chapter of the Youth Liberation Front (YLF) are calling for Leftists to attend an upcoming protest on 2 March to oppose an “anti-protest bill” in the Florida legislature. They claim that the bill — HB 1/SB 484 — will criminalize marching, “legalize running over protesters,” and make protesters ineligible for unemployment benefits or employment in the state. The event is being organized by several Far Left groups, such as the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL). (AC: Groups such as the RAM and YLF have become violent at numerous protests and demonstrations. Activists are likely to carry out acts of violence and vandalism following this protest.- M.B.)

Upcoming Event Calendar

23 February: Ahmaud Arbery death anniversary disruption (BLM) (Portland, OR)
27 February: “F*** the Police” march (TTC, YLF) (Washington, D.C.)
27 February: Anti-ICE disruption (antifascists) (Portland, OR)
02 March: “Anti-protesting Bill” march (RAM, YLF, PSL, BLM) (Tallahassee, FL)
06 March: “Autonomous Day of Action” (YLF) (multiple cities)
08 March: Derrick Chauvin trial to begin
 

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Discussion Starter #35
PolyMerman & M-Peltier -------------- WPLG Local 10 News quoted witness Elizabeth Stephens: " I just laid on the floor & called the police because I was afraid"

Again, The title of the post is incorrect. Should be fixed.
Well good for Ms. Stephens. No the title is correct based on the article posted above and how this was initially reported on the CBS news.
 

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This is all part of the intentional destruction of America by the Left. Look at this except from today's Forward Observer, the left is arming and planning for all out war against law enforcement and conservatives. They are going to be asking for reparations, they are going to come and take them. They are intentionally migrating to red states so they can flip them politically. They are planning for massive organized disruption of our cities with huge well organized and supplied armies. Read it for yourself.


InFocus: State electoral shifts and Low Intensity Conflict
One of the oft-cited effects of the pandemic is an increase in the number of Americans who can or will work from home. That means a continued exodus by workers from high tax, high cost states like California to lower cost, low tax states. Nearly nine million Americans relocated to another state in 2020, and Idaho was the most popular destination for movers, according to moving company Atlas Van Lines. In fact, Idaho topped the #1 moving destination for the fourth year in a row.
Last week, I spoke with a friend who is moving from Washington State to Montana for basically the same reason. He told me that houses are being scooped off the market as soon as they’re listed, with many being bought sight-unseen. I’m reminded of the several times prominent progressives have pointed out that a state like Montana — and two Senate seats — were decided by less than 100,000 votes in 2020. Maybe, they surmised, a major push to relocate progressives to Montana could flip the state.
We’re already seeing this trend in Georgia and Texas, states that can both be considered purple. Atlas President Barry Schellenburg says this relocation trend will continue. “People will be moving away from coastal areas where there is a higher cost of living and going to places like Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Tennessee.”
I wonder what conservatives with “Old America” sentiments will do when their states continue to flip blue like a line of colored dominoes due to out-of-staters bringing their “New America” sentiments with them. My guess is that higher levels of low intensity conflict will occur in states that are the most traditionally conservative, like Texas, but turning purple or blue over the next several election cycles. - S.C.

LOW INTENSITY CONFLICT INTSUM
Black Lives Matter group publishes “corking” protest tactic guide
Black Lives Matter (BLM) Bike Bloc PDX has posted a new guide detailing “corking” tactics for upcoming protests in 2021. The tactic involves utilizing teams of activists on bikes, motorcycles, and other vehicles to block off streets, escort marches, and impede the movement of law enforcement. The guide recommended that “corkers” use radio communications and body cameras while scouting routes ahead of protests. Organizers called for these activists to wear ballistic armor, carry medical gear, and wear “black bloc clothing.” (AC: Far Left groups used vehicles throughout 2020 to provide scouting capability, physical cover, logistical support, and mobility during disruptions. - M.B.)

Antifascists plan upcoming anti-ICE disruptions
On Saturday, 27 February, antifascists in Portland, Oregon will carry out a “direct action march” against immigration enforcement and deportations. The disruption will begin at the Fields Park in the Pearl District and organizers have instructed participants to be in black bloc. An anti-ICE disruption and caravan is also being planned in Atlanta, Georgia for Sunday, 28 February. (AC: Immigration & Customs Enforcement has become a frequent target for Far Left disruptions. In Portland, antifascists will likely march south through the city and arrive at the ICE building to clash with federal officers. Last night, antifascists lit a large fire outside the ICE building during a disruption. - M.B.)

Florida Leftists oppose state “anti-protest” bill
The Miami chapter of the Revolutionary Abolitionary Movement (RAM) and Fort Lauderdale chapter of the Youth Liberation Front (YLF) are calling for Leftists to attend an upcoming protest on 2 March to oppose an “anti-protest bill” in the Florida legislature. They claim that the bill — HB 1/SB 484 — will criminalize marching, “legalize running over protesters,” and make protesters ineligible for unemployment benefits or employment in the state. The event is being organized by several Far Left groups, such as the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL). (AC: Groups such as the RAM and YLF have become violent at numerous protests and demonstrations. Activists are likely to carry out acts of violence and vandalism following this protest.- M.B.)

Upcoming Event Calendar

23 February: Ahmaud Arbery death anniversary disruption (BLM) (Portland, OR)
27 February: “F*** the Police” march (TTC, YLF) (Washington, D.C.)
27 February: Anti-ICE disruption (antifascists) (Portland, OR)
02 March: “Anti-protesting Bill” march (RAM, YLF, PSL, BLM) (Tallahassee, FL)
06 March: “Autonomous Day of Action” (YLF) (multiple cities)
08 March: Derrick Chauvin trial to begin
Come on John. These are just good patriotic Americans looking out for our rights. We all know the real threat to America is those nasty white supremacists. I heard our new AG, Merrick Garland, say so this morning during his confirmation hearing.
 

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This is all part of the intentional destruction of America by the Left. Look at this except from today's Forward Observer, the left is arming and planning for all out war against law enforcement and conservatives. They are going to be asking for reparations, they are going to come and take them. They are intentionally migrating to red states so they can flip them politically. They are planning for massive organized disruption of our cities with huge well organized and supplied armies. Read it for yourself.
OK, if we know their intentions, schedules and routes why does no one on the Conservative side organize a protest and confront them / counter-protest them?!

I'm trying to organize a very small something around here, not even an anti-BLM/Antifa thing... and zero interest. It's like we want them to win or something. Disheartening.

We're too comfortable.

 

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Your theory is all good and well if you are law enforcement chasing after felons, and your job is to engage them.

The pivotal term I use is to "Engage". That makes all the difference in the world as far as planning for the worst and praying for the best.

In civilian self-defense... the name of the game is not to engage, but to avoid criminals. Hence, any gun, even a 5 shot snubby is better than being unarmed. I don't live in an open carry state, and so to me and other civilians, we are bound by the CCW laws to carry the smallest or rather, the largest most powerful weapon we can conceal without printing, or lest we could be charged with unlawful display of a firearm.
Apparently you missed reading this part of what I wrote:
"I'm not saying that you would be trying to stop and arrest such dangerous individuals. I am saying that in the event you unintentionally encountered such individuals and needed to use your EDC handgun to defend yourself, that your 2.3 rounds fired at someone like that isn't going to do anything other then get you killed. Especially If your life saving plan is to expect to only need to engage in a quick 2.3 shot incident."

And to your other point, I always carry concealed as to not give away the fact that I am armed to potential criminal, murderous, two legged predators. I easily carry this, which is my EDC, under loose fitting shirts. With a decent belt and loose fitting shirts, like Hawaiian shirts or 5.11 shirts, this is a very comfortable, easy to conceal set up. None of it prints. But, you do you and I'll do me. I feel a lot safer with a full size handgun and extra magazines in the event there is no exit escape from a deadly encounter where I need all the firepower that I can carry.
605321
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Apparently you missed reading this part of what I wrote:
"I'm not saying that you would be trying to stop and arrest such dangerous individuals. I am saying that in the event you unintentionally encountered such individuals and needed to use your EDC handgun to defend yourself, that your 2.3 rounds fired at someone like that isn't going to do anything other then get you killed. Especially If your life saving plan is to expect to only need to engage in a quick 2.3 shot incident."

And to your other point, I always carry concealed as to not give away the fact that I am armed to potential criminal, murderous, two legged predators. I easily carry this, which is my EDC, under loose fitting shirts. With a decent belt and loose fitting shirts, like Hawaiian shirts or 5.11 shirts, this is a very comfortable, easy to conceal set up. None of it prints. But, you do you and I'll do me. I feel a lot safer with a full size handgun and extra magazines in the event there is no exit escape from a deadly encounter where I need all the firepower that I can carry.
... the 2.3 shots is the average for self defense shooting, anyhow, that is what I read years ago. It's not a universal magic number. Its based on thousands of incidents. Most of the time, an attacker runs the moment they are fired at. These gangbangers that spray their victims with .... say 80 rounds like in this case, do so because they are cowards and the victims are unarmed, and they have no fear of being shot back at. I've seen videos of store clerks shooting back at robbers, and at the first instance of the clerk opening fire, the crooks run and often trip over themselves to get out. It's over in one New York second.

Its great if you can carry four loaded mags and not print. Florida is sub-tropical weather state, and conceal carry is limited to what you can either pocket carry or IWB carry with the proper rig. Few people wear jackets here year round. At minimum, I carry sometimes a 5 shot snubby and a speed strip with 6 more rounds. Sometimes I carry my Glock 30SF IWB with an extended magazine. Chances are I will never... ever have to pull a weapon on anyone, I have owned weapons for 45 years and never pulled a gun on anyone yet. Most of us also will never be in a defensive shooting. Statistics are on our side. But just in case, I feel confident even with the minimum.

But even your four loaded mags plus what is in your carry 1911 isn't enough if you overthink it. The perpetrators in this incident fired some 80 rounds... that is more than what you carry and you will be out gun just like someone with only 5 or 14 rounds. But chances are, the second you open fire, they will run.

In the overwhelming majority of the incidents where an armed civilian fires a shot in self-defense, probably 70 to 90% of them are able to resolve the situation within 3 or 4 rounds, and usually closer to one or two rounds. Every once in awhile, the good guy fires more like 5 to 8 rounds.
 
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