1911Forum banner
41 - 60 of 102 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
951 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Accelerating (or decelerating) a mass to change it's momentum takes energy. Lots of it for accelerating a 230gr vs. a 124gr mass from rest, 85% more mass in the .45 round. The kick is the energy input to create acceleration. If you tried to accelerate a 500gr round from a 1911 to 830fps you'd get quite the recoil/kick and so on.

Newtons third law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
951 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
The 9mm 1911 train has been in motion for a long time already. You know it truly is the next evolution when some of the most respectable old fuddy duddy gun guys like Bill Wilson, Larry Vickers, and Ken Hackathorn all shoot and prefer 9mm 1911s to 45s.

45 is now considered a fudd caliber. That age old 9mm vs 45acp debate was put to rest a decade ago. 9mm won and thank god.

Actually disagree quite a bit. Easier to shoot for older hands wrists and arthritis? Yes.

Fuddy duddy? Hardly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
You know it truly is the next evolution when some of the most respectable old fuddy duddy gun guys like Bill Wilson, Larry Vickers, and Ken Hackathorn all shoot and prefer 9mm 1911s to 45s.
45 is now considered a fudd caliber. That age old 9mm vs 45acp debate was put to rest a decade ago. 9mm won and thank god.
Not due to comparative viability as defense performance of the round itself.

They made it pretty clear the recent preference for the 9mm over the .45 was age related.


Go to 5:00 for the age thing……
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
It will never end, two generations from now, people will be debating 45 Megahertz Particle Beam weapon vs 9 GigaHertz Particle Beams, one has more knock down power than the other, one disintegrates the body 3 nanoseconds faster than the other, yea, but the other carry's nearly twice as many shots per power pack than the other......:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
430 Posts
Accelerating (or decelerating) a mass to change it's momentum takes energy. Lots of it for accelerating a 230gr vs. a 124gr mass from rest, 85% more mass in the .45 round. The kick is the energy input to create acceleration. If you tried to accelerate a 500gr round from a 1911 to 830fps you'd get quite the recoil/kick and so on.

Newtons third law.
Actually it takes force and force=mass x acceleration, its the 2nd law, just before the 3rd.

9mm is 124 grain accelerated from zero to 1200 fps
45ACP is 230 grain accelerated from zero to 830 fps

That doesn't mean 9mm has more force than .45ACP, my point is, it isn't just the mass, its linear, and thus just as much the acceleration as the mass effects the total force.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,422 Posts
I'll grant you, the math conveniently works out for an answer you'd expect, (I've gotten by in more than one test in this way) but the concepts confuse me.
Momentum is the tendency to stay in motion or resist going into motion.
So, at first glance I would think the energy in motion would be what you experience in the kick.
But at 2nd glance, the kick is the change from not being in motion to going into motion, so perhaps momentum is the what you're experiencing.
Kinetic Energy is the total energy in motion, i.e. after the round leave the end of the barrel. So, I'll have to agree.
0ne more equation in the morning cerial..."Force" and momentum are very closly related...Force is (exactly) equal to the change in momentum divided by the change in time. In math/physics this is called a "derivitave" and if "time" is on the denomitor it is called the "time derivitave of momentem"...So in the jargan of engineers and physcicist, Force = the time derivitave of momentum.

F= change in momentum/change in time.

So you can see force is directly related to momemntum (ie, the more momentume, the more opertunity to change that into force). And is (inverselly) related to time. Meaning the less time it takes to change the momentum, the faster that force "bundle" is dissapated.

So lets apply this to force on target. The bullet hits the target, and as we see above the more momentum it has the more oppertunity for force on target. Now if that momentum "dissipats" slower and passes through the target you will get less force on target. If that momentum disapates and stops in the target that entire force will be dissapated in the target. Of course there is the main goal of: destroying as much "stuff" in the target, which is related to the dissipation of force through the target and size of the bullet face (in surface area, and why Hollow Points (all other things equal) make for a better SD bullet.). Hence, we don't want to absolutly maximize "force" by stopping the bullet too, too quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Not due to comparative viability as defense performance of the round itself.

They made it pretty clear the recent preference for the 9mm over the .45 was age related.


Go to 5:00 for the age thing……
And thus why I playfully said old fuddy duddy gun guys.

The reality is, these guys all favored 45. Until the debate was determined. They begrudgingly ALL switched over to 9mm. The age thing is ego/saving face. Besides, if it saves the wear and tear of your body and the damage is negligible, it's all a part of why a 9mm 1911 is superior. If you can't shoot it because it hurts, what good is it for you? Thus 45 is now mainly seen as a fudd caliber. The only ones who refuse to let go are the fudds who see it as too inconvenient to change their opinion as such. I have met guys that refuse to even TRY a 9mm 1911 ("1911 was designed ONLY for 45acp")

People, mostly 40 years old and above, are hesitant to question their beliefs. Religious, political, philosophical, whatever.

When you've believed something for so long, you act a certain way, have certain relationships, do certain things, vote a certain way, etc., because of your beliefs. They become a big part of who you are.

To question your beliefs means you may find out you are wrong, or find out you disagree with the beliefs you have associated yourself with for your entire life. Thus meaning your entire life would have to change, and thats not easy to do or deal with.

I understand why people are afraid to question the things they believe in, but to just take your beliefs as truth because the alternative is too inconvenient, that's just silly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
The reality is, these guys all favored 45. Until the debate was determined. They begrudgingly ALL switched over to 9mm. The age thing is ego/saving face.
What debate?
You are tilting windmills here.
Actually they really don’t have to save their ego.
Certainly not in any context of you informing them.
Most would take their advice and experience over mine and certainly over yours.

The only ones who refuse to let go are the fudds who see it as too inconvenient to change their opinion as such.
That is absurd and clearly not supported by the facts.
Again, what is this “letting go”.
Many many shoot and enjoy both.
Many much longer than yourself apparently.

To question your beliefs means you may find out you are wrong, or find out you disagree with the beliefs you have associated yourself with for your entire life. Thus meaning your entire life would have to change, and thats not easy to do or deal with.
Incredibly Ill informed generational bias.
Lots of Old Men have and continue to make regular adjustment in their daily lives.
Only a Youngster who hasn’t experienced a lifetime of adjustment and reassessment would think otherwise.

You might want to review the definition of “Fudd”.
It has little or no relevance to the question at hand.
Your repeated use of the term in this context doesn’t reinforce your argument.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
I’ve always said one of the best, most enlightening things a young person can do is write/keep a personal journal.

After a decade or two passes it’s fun to revisit the words of that person you thought you knew so well and realize how much you’ve changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
951 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well, we went from personal experience, opinions, physics lessons, and now existential discussions about older people and life changing decisions LOL.

This thread has delivered!
 

·
Registered
Ruger, Colt and Les Baer 1911s. Various Glocks, no-hole S&Ws, Rugers, Mausers, some AR.
Joined
·
25 Posts
I have had a Ruger SR1911 for a while and I just got my Les Baer blue Custom Carry this past weekend.

The SR1911 is a Lightweight Commander style, the Les Baer is all steel. The SR1911 already felt soft to shoot, I suspect the Les Baer will be very easy to handle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
9mm is for a High Power. 1911s were designed for 45acp, I'll stick with them.
Well, SA EMPs are 1911s in terms of their parts/design but they are specifically designed for 9mm. To my knowledge no way to make a 9mm EMP shoot .45 ACP since the receiver is sized for 9mm magazines. The magazines are shorter front to rear than .45 ACPs. Not that I intend to try, but pretty certain I could swap the slides of my .45 APC with the 9mm and the guns would work.

That said, I do low to shot my FN Browning High Power in 9mm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
I own 1911’s in 9mm, .38 Super, 10mm and .45 ACP. I like shooting all of them. The 9mm is softer shooting, but 185 grain .45’s are fairly gentle too. The 10mm does have a bit more snap than .45, but not that much in a steel frame gun. Even though I enjoy all of them, I tend to gravitate back to the .45. For a lot of years I was pretty much a big bore revolver nut, so maybe I am a bit desensitized towards recoil, but I do not find .45 ACP to be that much recoil. But, in my opinion the bottom line is, we all ought to press on shooting what we handle well and makes us happy. It ain’t a test of manhood either!
 

·
Registered
Ruger, Colt and Les Baer 1911s. Various Glocks, no-hole S&Ws, Rugers, Mausers, some AR.
Joined
·
25 Posts
I own 1911’s in 9mm, .38 Super, 10mm and .45 ACP. ... For a lot of years I was pretty much a big bore revolver nut, so maybe I am a bit desensitized towards recoil, but I do not find .45 ACP to be that much recoil.
For sure. Years ago, I shot great quantities of .45 ACP, .44 Special, .357 Magnum, and .44 Magnum with hardly a flinch. A few years ago, after several years of not shooting at all, I grabbed a .45 ACP 1911 and a .45 Colt Vaquero and went to the range. It did not take me long to realize that I should have brought a .38 or even .22 as well. I relaxed, practiced my breathing and trigger pull, and wasn't bad by the end of the session, but I definitely learned a lesson about the value of practice, especially with the bigger calibers.

...But, in my opinion the bottom line is, we all ought to press on shooting what we handle well and makes us happy. It ain’t a test of manhood either!
Absolutely! I also enjoy shooting my .32 ACP and .38 Special handguns.
 
41 - 60 of 102 Posts
Top