9mm or 40
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There are other things to consider besides either 9mm or .40. Are we thinking about having a pistol built or picking one up and see how it runs? Single stack or double stack?
Let's just say for under a $1000. You can get a STI Trojan in both 9mm or .40, and both Kimber and SA market single stacks in .40. SA also sells a .38 Super and 9mm. You can find Colts in 9mm and .38 Super if you look. PA makes their LDA in .40. If you want to spend a little more money, you can get a STI double stack in 9mm, .38 Super, or .40.
With respect to how they shoot, I like a .40 better than a 9mm. Seems to shoot a little faster. The only 9mm in a 1911 I shot was a Colt. It just seemed slow. If Tom gets into this thread, I am sure he can add more to this than I. I think he is shooting a STI Trojan in 9mm.
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John
"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
Let's just say for under a $1000. You can get a STI Trojan in both 9mm or .40, and both Kimber and SA market single stacks in .40. SA also sells a .38 Super and 9mm. You can find Colts in 9mm and .38 Super if you look. PA makes their LDA in .40. If you want to spend a little more money, you can get a STI double stack in 9mm, .38 Super, or .40.
With respect to how they shoot, I like a .40 better than a 9mm. Seems to shoot a little faster. The only 9mm in a 1911 I shot was a Colt. It just seemed slow. If Tom gets into this thread, I am sure he can add more to this than I. I think he is shooting a STI Trojan in 9mm.
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John
"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
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Kevin,
This is off-topic, but go to groups.yahoo.com and check out ArkansasShooters. It is an email discussion group for gun guys in Arkansas. Traffic comes in spurts, but it is occasionally worthwhile, especially during the legislative session.
As for the 9mm 1911, I have never heard anything about them being unreliable, but I have heard complaints of the 9mm not producing much slide velocity, so being a bit slow to recycle. .40 would probably be better in that regard, or you could just have that 9mm reamed to 9x23 and have all the slide velocity you want.
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This is off-topic, but go to groups.yahoo.com and check out ArkansasShooters. It is an email discussion group for gun guys in Arkansas. Traffic comes in spurts, but it is occasionally worthwhile, especially during the legislative session.
As for the 9mm 1911, I have never heard anything about them being unreliable, but I have heard complaints of the 9mm not producing much slide velocity, so being a bit slow to recycle. .40 would probably be better in that regard, or you could just have that 9mm reamed to 9x23 and have all the slide velocity you want.
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Hello Kevin. Here is my take of 9 vs 40 in a 1911. I like the 9 more as it’s a whole bunch cheaper to shoot/practice. 40 ammo is still expensive and factory ammo is loaded to 165-185 power factor. If you reload 9 is 30%-ish cheaper component wise.
If you get a 9 or 38 super, have the slide lightened a bunch. This will allow the slide to cycle faster which is good. A slow slide can be a real pain if you are shooting fast.
As far as reliability goes, both the 9 and 40 are too short for a 1911 without using modified mags or a custom gun that is set up PERFECT. That is why I shoot a 38 Super in ESP. The 1911 was designed around the 1.240 case length. 38 Super brass might be more expensive, but you will spend the same on powder and bullets. The new Springfields in 9 seem good and they run. Just lighten up that slide. Or, buy an STI Trojan in 9x19.
Good luck to you and let me know how it goes.
Tom
AF Shooting Team
[This message has been edited by Tom Freeman (edited 07-03-2001).]
If you get a 9 or 38 super, have the slide lightened a bunch. This will allow the slide to cycle faster which is good. A slow slide can be a real pain if you are shooting fast.
As far as reliability goes, both the 9 and 40 are too short for a 1911 without using modified mags or a custom gun that is set up PERFECT. That is why I shoot a 38 Super in ESP. The 1911 was designed around the 1.240 case length. 38 Super brass might be more expensive, but you will spend the same on powder and bullets. The new Springfields in 9 seem good and they run. Just lighten up that slide. Or, buy an STI Trojan in 9x19.
Good luck to you and let me know how it goes.
Tom
AF Shooting Team
[This message has been edited by Tom Freeman (edited 07-03-2001).]
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i justbought a trojan STI in 9mm and i love it. i bought a kimber 40. cal and it shot lik crap, as will most 40.'s unless you reload yorself. the only way to make a 40 shoot good is to load them long to 45 acp length, other wise they just dont group well. if you get a 9mm, just make sure you put a light recoil spring on it and it will help counter act that sluggish feeling and stove pipe jams. if you hoot a 40 in ESP class for IDPA, you put yourself at a disadvantage with the recoil, and you will pay alot more for ammo.
I shoot the 9x23 in ESP. The slide cycles fine if you run about a 140 power factor. The 9x23 is a very reliable cartridge and it cost the same as a 9mm to reload. The only difference is the initial cost of the brass. I run 130 grain jacketed at 1050fps and have no problems knocking down steel when I hit it. I was at the Blackwater challenge and saw a guy shooting 115's in a 9mm hit a popper in the center mass 7 times and it wouldn't go down. 147's might be a little better on steel but the 130's have worked just fine.
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The only reason I like a fast slide is that I have become used to a fast cycling gun.
About three years ago I built an open gun and shot 115's at the speed of heat. It felt like as soon as the gun went off, it was ready to go again.
At the time I was shooting 220's in my 40 and it felt sluggish compared to an open gun. I went to the extreme and shot 155's in my 40 and that beat the gun and me up. Now I am shooting 180 along with 75% of all the other 40 shooters, but I still like a fast slide. The new lower IPSC power factor doesn’t require a real heavy slide anymore, which is why I started hacking on mine. My STI Unique cut slide weighs less than a standard cut slide. All the weight was removed internally.
As my ESP gun won’t be run at anything more than a 135-140 pf, I had no problem lightening the slide a buttload. If the gun points quicker, swings faster, cycles faster, and climbs less on recoil, I can spend more time trying to find the front sight. I save myself the hassle of running real light springs or reloading +P+ ammo.
Tom
AF Shooting Team
About three years ago I built an open gun and shot 115's at the speed of heat. It felt like as soon as the gun went off, it was ready to go again.
At the time I was shooting 220's in my 40 and it felt sluggish compared to an open gun. I went to the extreme and shot 155's in my 40 and that beat the gun and me up. Now I am shooting 180 along with 75% of all the other 40 shooters, but I still like a fast slide. The new lower IPSC power factor doesn’t require a real heavy slide anymore, which is why I started hacking on mine. My STI Unique cut slide weighs less than a standard cut slide. All the weight was removed internally.
As my ESP gun won’t be run at anything more than a 135-140 pf, I had no problem lightening the slide a buttload. If the gun points quicker, swings faster, cycles faster, and climbs less on recoil, I can spend more time trying to find the front sight. I save myself the hassle of running real light springs or reloading +P+ ammo.
Tom
AF Shooting Team
I have a SA 9mm and just sold a .40 Kimber. There is a trade off in shooting the 115 gr. bullet vs. the 147. I load the 147 to 880 fps and the 115 to 1125. There is almost no recoil with the 147. An accurate second shot is a little faster with the 147. The slide does cycle faster with the 115 though. The stock 9 lb. spring works fine. If you shoot a lot then the 9mm is the way to go. 9mm brass is free. Lead bullets for the 9mm only cost around $22 per 1000. I load the 9mm out to 1.165" and use the McCormick 38 Super mags. Reliability has been good.
Hi - I saw your message on the 9mm. Was wondering about the use of lead bullets vs. jacketed. Are you getting the same accuracy? Any leading? Also I assumed 115 9mm would have less recoil than a 147. Am interested as I'm picking up a Caspian 9mm this weekend, and plan to use it for IDPA. Appreicate any feedback/advice - also reload details, bullets, powder etc.
Thanks! John S. [email protected] & [email protected]
Thanks! John S. [email protected] & [email protected]
John, accuracy is the same. There is little leading at 880 fps. I shoot a 147 gr. West Coast plated bullet most of the time. I use 3.5 gr. of Titegroup. The 147 gr. bullet has a much softer recoil. I have been pleasently surprised with the accuracy of this 9mm SA. Most groups are 1 1/2" or better at 25 yds.
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Tom Freeman
"My STI Unique cut slide weighs less than a standard cut slide. All the weight was removed internally."
Would you please go into detail about how you lightened your slide internally. The internal lightining would be the only way to do it IDPA legal. I have been trying to figure out where i could remove as much weight as posible. Also would a lighter slide and spring setup be benificial to a .45 acp. I read that the ipsc guys all run light moving parts..slides to reduce recoil when the slide is at the rear of its stroke and lighter springs to reduce recoil when going into battery. thanks for all your help.
"My STI Unique cut slide weighs less than a standard cut slide. All the weight was removed internally."
Would you please go into detail about how you lightened your slide internally. The internal lightining would be the only way to do it IDPA legal. I have been trying to figure out where i could remove as much weight as posible. Also would a lighter slide and spring setup be benificial to a .45 acp. I read that the ipsc guys all run light moving parts..slides to reduce recoil when the slide is at the rear of its stroke and lighter springs to reduce recoil when going into battery. thanks for all your help.
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