[bowler1]

Hi,
I am new to the forum so forgive me if this is an old topic--did a search and found no threads...and forgive me for "blasphemy" suggesting a 9mm 1911. I am most interested in whatever will be most practical and effective.

So I have been a 1911 fan for years, and a 45 ACP fan. Never did I think I would ever consider a 9mm, but after reading the latest FBI caliber report I am seriously considering 9mm. Another big factor for me is the fact that 9mm is much cheaper and I sold all my reloading stuff several years back (which I kind of regret, but that's another story).

I am a very good shooter with my current Kimber CDP 1911 in 45 ACP. I am considering moving to a 9mm Kimber Aegis or Dan Wesson Guardian. The cheaper ammo, lower recoil and therefore faster potential follow up shots are appealing to me. An extra round doesn't hurt either.

On the other hand I really like the feel of a 1911 and imagine that a 9mm version will have a slimmer grip profile. I am not sure if it will feel as good in the hand. Furthermore, I am not totally and completely sold on the whole 9mm vs. 45 issue. If handgun "stopping power" is truly a myth like the FBI report states and if most gun fights requite 2-3 rounds to incapacitate a bad guy, then would a 9mm 1911 offer a potentially better platform (disregarding the blasphemy of a 9mm 1911)?

Curious what your thoughts are.

thanks
Matt

 

[1911turbo]

There is no practical performance difference between the main pistol calibers. A 9mm will be just as effective as a .45ACP so I think it's smart to consider price, capacity, and recoil differences.

That said, I'm sure that the rest of the replies will disagree and praise the .45 because we're on a 1911 forum after all.

 

[bowler1]

Yeah....

I am starting to believe that the difference in effectiveness may be a factor, and that a 9mm might be a more practical choice if we put emotions and prejudices aside.

On the other hand I am not sure if there may be other factors I have not considered. I have never shot a 9mm in a 1911. While the recoil is "less" perhaps its sharper/snappier recoil will not be as much as an advantage over 45 as I would have thought.

Also not sure about the difference in grip size.

Last is that I haven't seen much on the internet refuting the FBI report. I am sure there is an alternate perspective and I would be curious to hear it. Just seems like such a drastic change to what I have been told for so many years.

Matt

 

[Cappi]

On the other hand I really like the feel of a 1911 and imagine that a 9mm version will have a slimmer grip profile

nosir ...they use the same frame

I have no interest in getting into the "caliber war" debate at this time
I'll leave that for others

I will say, if I was to go 9mm for pistol that's primarily for defense, it wouldn't be a 9mm 1911
It would be one of the hi-cap 9's like a CZ, M&P, gWock, Sig, HK, etc

but that's just "me"


..L.T.A.

 

[Cappi]

On the other hand I am not sure if there may be other factors I have not considered. I have never shot a 9mm in a 1911. While the recoil is "less" perhaps its sharper/snappier recoil will not be as much as an advantage over 45 as I would have thought.

Also not sure about the difference in grip size.

again, unless it's a Springfield EMP (slightly different/smaller frame)
The two you're considering (Kimber and DW) as well as all the 1911 manufactures use the same frame for 9, 38 super, 40 and 45 cals.
There some some differences in the way the slide is machined as well as feed ramp geometry on some...but for all practical purpose, the frame is the same


recoil on an all steel 9mm 1911 is quite tame .
never owned an aluminum alloy frame 9mm 1911, so can't say...other than I'm sure it's less than an alloy frame 45


..L.T.A.

 

[johnbrowning1911]

I will say, if I was to go 9mm for pistol that's primarily for defense, it wouldn't be a 9mm 1911
It would be one of the hi-cap 9's like a CZ, M&P, gWock, Sig, HK, etc

This ^^^^^

There are those of us who believe that if it isnt .45 ACP, it isnt a 1911!

 

[Arisley]

I will agree that the 9mm is as effective as a .45. OK that hurt.

A .45 punches a hole that is 45/100 of an inch in diameter.
A 9mm punches a hole 35/100 of an inch in diameter.

My eyes are not as good as they used to be. The bigger holes are easier for me to see and aim at for the follow up shot.

 

[boatdoc]

Hi,
I am new to the forum so forgive me if this is an old topic--did a search and found no threads...and forgive me for "blasphemy" suggesting a 9mm 1911. I am most interested in whatever will be most practical and effective.

So I have been a 1911 fan for years, and a 45 ACP fan. Never did I think I would ever consider a 9mm, but after reading the latest FBI caliber report I am seriously considering 9mm. Another big factor for me is the fact that 9mm is much cheaper and I sold all my reloading stuff several years back (which I kind of regret, but that's another story).

I am a very good shooter with my current Kimber CDP 1911 in 45 ACP. I am considering moving to a 9mm Kimber Aegis or Dan Wesson Guardian. The cheaper ammo, lower recoil and therefore faster potential follow up shots are appealing to me. An extra round doesn't hurt either.

On the other hand I really like the feel of a 1911 and imagine that a 9mm version will have a slimmer grip profile. I am not sure if it will feel as good in the hand. Furthermore, I am not totally and completely sold on the whole 9mm vs. 45 issue. If handgun "stopping power" is truly a myth like the FBI report states and if most gun fights requite 2-3 rounds to incapacitate a bad guy, then would a 9mm 1911 offer a potentially better platform (disregarding the blasphemy of a 9mm 1911)?

Curious what your thoughts are.

thanks
Matt

JMHO-- it is the # of holes created and where they are located that matters not the size of the holes created

I love our Ed brown 1911 in 9mm-- I am also thinking of getting either a WC, a NHC or another Ed in 9mm-- they are fun. That said, my wife and I both love traditional 45 acp 1911s especially now that ammo prices are closer to 30 cents a round(and 9mm is 20 cents a round).OBVIOUSLY I am NOT a traditionalist about these 1911s I just buy and shoot what I like--luckily for me, my wife is like minded


buy, shoot ,enjoy

 

[mike merkler]

Do not care what caliber, it comes down to shot placement.
IMHO
Thanks,
Mike

 

[BadaBing11]

nosir ...they use the same frame

I have no interest in getting into the "caliber war" debate at this time
I'll leave that for others

I will say, if I was to go 9mm for pistol that's primarily for defense, it wouldn't be a 9mm 1911
It would be one of the hi-cap 9's like a CZ, M&P, gWock, Sig, HK, etc

but that's just "me"


..L.T.A.

What he said. Shot placement is probably the most important thing. The hi cap gives more chances for that.

 

[chrysanthemum]

nosir ...they use the same frame

I have no interest in getting into the "caliber war" debate at this time
I'll leave that for others

I will say, if I was to go 9mm for pistol that's primarily for defense, it wouldn't be a 9mm 1911
It would be one of the hi-cap 9's like a CZ, M&P, gWock, Sig, HK, etc

but that's just "me"


..L.T.A.

Another +1 for Cappi's reply.

Nothing wrong with carrying a 9mm 1911 for SD... I've done it on many occasions related to range trips. But if I were to start from scratch (without reference to what I'm taking to the range, etc.), I'd go with either a "modern" 9mm design or a 1911 in 45acp.

 

[techiede44]

I love my 1911 (and pattern guns) especially in 45.

That said, my next one will be a 1911 in 9mm as I need to lower the felt recoil (getting old) and it will be cheaper to shoot in matches where I can't recover my brass 100% of the time.

I reload and if I can recover all of my brass the cost difference is less than $0.06/round including bullet, primer & powder...not enough to justify a new gun.

But, as much as I love my 1911's and have no qualms over their reliability, my self-defense gun is a Glock 17. Utterly reliable, no external safeties and 17+1 capacity in a fairly light gun...light enough for me to concealed carry.

 

[wccountryboy]

nosir ...they use the same frame

I have no interest in getting into the "caliber war" debate at this time
I'll leave that for others

I will say, if I was to go 9mm for pistol that's primarily for defense, it wouldn't be a 9mm 1911
It would be one of the hi-cap 9's like a CZ, M&P, gWock, Sig, HK, etc

but that's just "me"


..L.T.A.

^^^THIS^^^

On both counts. The caliber war looks like 1918 France; both sides firmly entrenched, nobody's gaining any ground, and nobody's moving... The Laws of Physics are pretty clear, but that doesn't matter.... its a passion, rather than logic driven argument.

IF I was getting a 9mm for a primary SD gun, I'd probably be looking at an M&P or SIG... OK, who am I kidding; we all know that the only reason that I'd carry a 9mm as my primary SD gun would be the need for a deep concealment/micro gun, and by default it wouldn't be a hi cap gun.... But that's just me.

 

[Big Pete10]

I disagree, bigger hole, heavier bullet has the edge no matter how you shake it. The 9MM 1911 gun is really fun and kicks a heck of a lot less than a .45. I bought one for play and IDPA, I love to shoot it but it ain't a carry gun. I have a 642 and an LC9 for carry, prefer the 642 as it's lighter and faster to get out of my pocket. I also have a lightweight commander for when we go to open carry in Jan. I will carry it some.

 

[chrysanthemum]

Don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, so I'll cautiously --with careful wording -- give it a go:

Many current manufacture 9mm 1911s are very, very reliable. This cannot be disputed. Nonetheless, if one begins to deviate from optimal conditions (due to wear, poorly matched mags, springs, or ammo,etc.), a 45acp 1911 is generally going to be more forgiving of deviations than a 9mm 1911. Please note that I'm not saying 9mm 1911s are less reliable; I am only saying that they are often less tolerant of deviations from the ideal.

On the other hand, most modern polymer 9mm designs, as well as steel/alloy designs such as the M9, are designed from the ground up around the 9mm. Many will run well even if the user purposefully attempts to introduce malfunctions via limp-twisting (for example).

All of this is another reason why I agree with Cappi's excellent post.

 

[Rick_A]

There is nothing better than an all steel 5" 1911 in 45acp as far as shootability, reliability, and durability goes. For packing while lightly dressed it is a little less than ideal.

For a lightweight carry gun I like the idea of 9mm, but the 1911 is not the most suitable weapon for the caliber. Advancements in magazines and ramped barrel designs make the most of it. There's a few CCO, commander, and the Springfield EMP model that make it work. They should offer less problems with frame cracking that the 45 versions suffer a bit prematurely, though most of us do not shoot enough for this to be a worry. Being fun to shoot and easy to use can't hurt.

The FBI report is not a glowing endorsement. It's reads more like an excuse for agents having a hard time with existing weapons. The best 9mm loads can equal some 40 or 45 loads but the best 40 or 45 loads will surpass the best 9mm loads in performance. The tradeoff is less rounds and a bit more recoil. That said, shot placement is #1. In the end it's what you're most comfortable with, willing to pack, and can shoot proficiently.

 

[stap]

FBI is switching back to 9mm.
I would go to a 9,if it's reliable.

 

[venado]

I truly believe the FBI report is propaganda, to help arm a people with less capable firearms for when the chips are down. I don't believe you will actually see FBI agents carrying a 9 mm, unless it is a female agent. However, my dad was in law-enforcement, and delighted in taking my mother to the range to shoot his 44 magnum, which his buddies were scared to fire.

 

[BillD]

9mm??? That shiite will get you killed on the street.
Cause, no one ever got killed by a 9mm....

 

[chrysanthemum]

Agree with Rick A. and Veneto as to the FBI study.

9mm is a perfectly decent SD round, but the FBI had to do a lot of hard work with organising the data in order to "prove" what they were trying to prove. It might have been better to simply say that the 9mm is a sound choice for SD and leave it at that.