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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having studied almost every post here concerning this I have a couple of questions.
1st Which base gun to start with. From what I read it seems Mr. Burns recommends a Springfield for getting started and then having built up later into full custom...but then which one...I see theres some already in 9x23 but how bout one of the new loaded 9mm's to start and get the least amount of work necessary to be functional and reliable(I'm workin' on a budget here
)?

2nd Approximately how much would it cost to take a 9mm loaded, new, Springfield and have it smithed into a 9x23? nothing fancy just functional with a finish in Black-T(I hope i'm not sounding like a guy who wants cheap, just something I can afford to get started with till I can afford a "full house"?

Thanks for any replies(Especially from Mr. Burns
)

para-


[This message has been edited by para-EDGe (edited 01-31-2001).]
 

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All you would have to do is buy a barrel and a magazine in 9x23.I think a 38 super magazine would work with the 9x23 ammo as well.
 

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Takes a bit more than a barrel and a mag if you want the gun to work.

38 super mags work just fine. I use Wilson 38 Super mags and supply them with the custom guns.

Least expensive guns currently n production are the 38 Super Loaded models from Springfield. That gun you can convert fairly easily and with the least amount of money if you do it corectly. If you want more details from me personally call the shop #.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank You. I'll see what I can find locally in a Springfield and then give you a ring.

para-

Originally posted by Dane Burns:
Takes a bit more than a barrel and a mag if you want the gun to work.

38 super mags work just fine. I use Wilson 38 Super mags and supply them with the custom guns.

Least expensive guns currently n production are the 38 Super Loaded models from Springfield. That gun you can convert fairly easily and with the least amount of money if you do it corectly. If you want more details from me personally call the shop #.
 

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I was just lookin' for this post John!
Made to order eh?

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

MWLWN LABE!
 

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Now this ain't a 1911, but I have an EAA Witnes in .38 S that was rechambered to 9x23Winchester. All I have done to it was dropping the 9x23 barrel in and putting a heavier recoil spring (22lbs) in the pistol.

In .38 S I would occassionally get a mag failure where that stupid rims of the .38 S would bind up or something and I'd need to drop the mag, give it a light thump to *release* the carts.

The 9x23 hasn't had this problem, but in the 500 rounds I have run through the Witness, there's been about 12 malfs varying from failure to exatract to failure to go fully into battery.

For a cheapo way to go (300 for the pistol plus the barrel) for a pistol just to blast around with, the Witness has been a worthy investment. But if it is a serious investment (mine was not, just a whim
) the standard Witness probably isn't the way to go.

Derek
 

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As long as everything "fits", I can't see what else is required beyond a barrel and a recoil spring to go from 38 super to 9 x 23. I guess you would also need a magazine and ejector to go from 9x19.

So what else is there to make it "work" Dane? Do you equalize the lugs on the barrel?
 

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Just buy the 9mm have the chamber reamed and put a spring in to match your loads. Springfield made a run of 9x23s with a supported barrel, I saw one last week at classic pistol (www.classicpistol.com) It looked like a loaded but they weren't made in this style. It loked good at 475.00 The frame was nickel with a blue slide. It had a beavertail and videcki trigger. The trigger pull was crisp and about 4lbs. Looked like a nice gun at a reasonable price.The owner of the range is the guy who invented the 9x23, John Ricco.
 

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I had talked with John Ricco at the beginning of his 9x23 project in 1994 and on a continued basis since then. Bought some of the very first CP 9x23 brass from him. I was building 1911s in 9x21 long before there was a 9x23. 9mm major and 38 super before that. Starting in 1984 in fact.

The Springfield 9x23s were nothing more than 38 Super guns with only the caliber markings changed on the barrel hood and a heavy spring installed.

A simple rechamber and respring will not get you a working 9x23 gun. Nor will it EVER be reliable with factory 9x23 Winchester ammo.

That is fact, not fiction or conjecture.
 

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Dane, I know curiousity killed the cat, but I ain't a feline!


You can't just pique our interest and leave us hangin'! That's no fair!

What is required to fully convert a 1911 .38 S to 9x23 Winchester?

Derek
 

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Dane,

I think we are all looking for some facts or details.

You mentioned "correct reamers". So beyond the correct chamber and a recoil spring, IN TECHNICAL TERMS, what are these nuances.
 

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Maybe he doesn't WANT to share those FACTS...
It is after all knowledge he had to get on his own and if he doesn't want to share it, I don't blame him...There are some things that people like to keep to themselves; ... perhaps this is one.
Maybe it has to do with some safety issues that could get some one hurt and he's not going to allow that to happen...
Let's show a little respect and perhaps, when he's ready he WILL share it...

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

MWLWN LABE!
 

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Everyone one wants something for free it seems


Colt and Springfield both pawned a bunch of surplus 38 Super guns off on the market as 9x23s and they are not built correctly in a number of ways. Neither company understood what they weredealing with IMO.

The 9x23 Win case, that Ricco originally owned the patent for, is made to run at 50K CUP. More that most ANY other center fire cartridge. Winchester claims its 9x23 case as THE strongest case ever built in centerfire form.

I am not much for half ass results. I don't tell everything I do on a 9x23 in public to make one run.

I build them and you pay for the results
It is called being in the pistolsmith business.


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Dane Burns www.burnscustom.com
 

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Originally posted by Dane Burns:
Takes a bit more than a barrel and a mag if you want the gun to work.

If you want more details from me personally call the shop #.
Well I figured that the holdup was all about bein in the pistolsmith business. I figured it would be better to share the nuances once in typing rather than get numerous calls at the shop as you suggested earlier (just trying to respect your time
). Doesn't hurt to try does it?


Heck, if we knew what your special touch was, we all might be convinced to send our 9x23s in for fixin rather than tinker with it ourselves.

Mine has been a bit fussy lately but I think my ammo is loaded out too long. Is there a portion of your Atlanta class devoted to 9x23 nuances?

Thanks Dane
 

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Atlanta? No.

Be nice if the moderator of the BUILD IT YOURSELF forum would take the obnoxious attitude there. Doesn't hurt to try, just makes you extremely rude.

I do build them myself and get paid for doing it.
 

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Not that it is any of my business, but telling someone how to checker a grip, install a mag well, etc., is one thing...how to convert a semi-auto pistol to a caliber it will not shoot reliably without a proper conversion is another. Course, I have only handled several dozen product liability cases so, what do I know, right?


I have one of Dane's 1911's in 9x23 and last night was the first opportunity I had to shoot it. It ran like a raped ape. Could care less whether he did voodoo on it or simply did 'smithing stuff to it that he has learned over the years. It works, which is the only reason I paid him to do the work.

Now, gotta run, I am gonna get on the fried chicken forum and see if the Colonel will post up that darn secret herbs and spices recipe...soon I will be cookin' like the Colonel hisself.
 
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