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A consideration when boking travel for the ccw'er

2088 Views 61 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  lankyyankee
I am flying in a couple of days to Kansas that has reciprocity with Arizona, although the tickets were super cheap ($40.00 each way Mesa Az.- Wichita), they charge $40.00 for any checked luggage. That ends up being an $80.00 fee if I want to pack my gun, or knife...since it is only a four day trip, that works out to $20.00 a day to carry.:mad:

Fed-exing my gun to the hotel would cost about the same, and I really don't like having a gun floating around out there unless it is on it's way to a Smith or the factory.

I hate making a tradeoff when it comes to personal security, but for this price it was too good to pass up...

Maybe I will buy a crossman air pistol and coat the bbs in pepper spray when I get there....:biglaugh:
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Obviously your carry-on is a no no but you can legally put in checked through luggage. Put your weapon in a lockable hard case and seperate it from your ammunition.When you get to the desk you need to immediatly declare that you have a firearm in your luggage. Some airports will have you sign a little red tag that it is unloaded. Others will have you open the case, verify that it unloaded and then have you sign the tag. Still others may require that ig goes through X ray prior to being put back into your bag. In all cases it must be seperate from your other stuff and in a locked hard case w/ no ammo anywhere near it.
The bold part of your post is not completely accurate.It is Federal law that you fill out and sign a declaration card that states the firearm is unloaded. It is not a "some airports" thing. It's Federal law. All airports and airlines are required to do this.
When I was living part time in TX and part time in NY I kept a couple guns in a safe in each state. that worked out well for me for the most part but one trip to NYI brought two guns on the plane and almost had them stolen.

They were legally checked in and tagged but someone broke the suit case lock expecting to find guns inside. But what they found inside was a very large sturdy case with locks that were a lot harder to break than regular suitcase locks. Trust me on this when I say gat a large box that is so big it can't be hidden under a coat and locks that would require bolt cutters or a hack saw to open. Putting the box inside a suitcase provides extra security.

If you visit there often maybe you can just leave a spare gun in kansas, or maybe if you are visiting family you can borrow a gun to carry. Or maybe you can buy a family member a gun and borrow the gun while you visit them

PS now a days I do all my traveling by truck because it makes it easier with guns and I now own two dogs
Federal code prohibits the placing of any kind of marking on the outside of your luggage that would indicate the presence of a firearm It's part of Title 18 of the USC.
Federal law prohibits any external markings or tags from being put on checked cases containing firearms.

Knowing this part of the law could have prevented this from happening and probably avoided the attempt at pilfering.

If the case containing your firearms is also your suitcase, then your statement is true. If the case is inside your suitcase, then your declaration goes on the outside of the hard sided firearm case so if TSA conducts a secondary search they can see the firearm has been declared.

Is this what you meant?
In regards to putting any kind of tag on the exterior of luggage containing a firearm the following is from 27 CFR 478.31

b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
I fly about once a month for work and have been doing so for about the last two years. I have NEVER had an airline employee tell me to put my declaration inside my locked firearm case. As I stated in my earlier post if your declaration is inside your locked case, and TSA conducts a secondary search of your bag after you check in, they have no way to see the tag because they don't have the key.

Please provide a cite for your position.
One other thing. I don't check guns in at the curb. I wait in the often crappy, terrible line at the ticket counter.
You cannot check at weapon at the curb.. Federal regulations require that you are required to turn your weapon over to the CARRIER and declare it. The staffing of many curb side check ins are contractors are not airline employees, therefore it's illegal.

Cite from 27 CFR SS 478.31

§ 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.
silvercorvette;2904070. said:
They do not want you to enter the building with guns.
Please provide the cite for this. It is perfectly legal to enter the terminal with a firearm if it is packed according to TSA and Fed regulations. Please read my cite about the illegailty of affixing a tag to a suitcase containing a firearm It may be a coincidence that your bag was opened. TSA has opened my luggage several times after I checked in but they leave a card inside your luggage to inform you. They also will cut TSA locks off your suitcase even when they are supposed to have the key. This is why I stopped putting TSA locks on my luggage.

I know for a fact that if you step inside the JFK airport building in NY with a gun and try checking in you will wind up in a world of hurt.
Again not true. I fly though JFK, Laguardia and Trenton all the time. There have been 2 court cases involving travel under FOPA and both courts affirmed it is legal. One involved a traveler going from JFK to Laguardia and NYPD or Port Authority police got slapped down big time by the Court. This case is on the NRA web site. The other involved a traveler from UT whose connecting flight from NJ to PA was canceled and then took his luggage and went to a hotel for the night. He was arrested when he checked back in. He appealed to the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals and was denied. The court's reason was he he"had access" to his luggage while in the hotel, thereby removing FOPA protection. They never held it was illegal to carry into the terminal under FOPA and the and TSA regs.

See Revell vs Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

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This was four years ago and my memory can be off on some details but I am 100% sure about being instructed to check in at the curb. The reason I am sure is that I did not know what I was doing and how to properly fly with guns so I called the airport to ask about the proper procedure. I was told what to do and I checked in at the curb because they instructed me to.
I have never been told this but perhaps if there are airline employees at curb check in it would be legal. I fly out of Dulles and National and their curb check in is staffed with contractors making curb side check in illegal under Federal regs.

You must declare the firearm to the CARRIER as per my previous cite
After the NRA cited lawsuit the Court directed both the PA and NYPD to cease the arrest of travelers traveling legally under FOPA. I know of no arrest since this court directive was issued. I would not want to be a test case however.
The most egregious case was of a man who was not even planning to fly to NY. His plane was diverted to LGA for weather. (Lets pretend he was flying from FL to NH for now) When he showed back up at LGA check in counter with his gun, he was arrested. .
According to the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals he lost his FOPA protection when he took control of his suitcase again. If I get stuck in the airport because of a cancellation or I am diverted, I am not taking control of my luggage. I will ask TSA or the airline to retain it, preventing an arrest due to a loss of FOPA protection. (fingers crossed)
Airline personnel at the aforementioned airports call for LE to question the traveler at check in, not luggage pickup.

You can't fix stupid (without a big lawsuit)
This is kindof off topic but in November 2001 I ferried a single engine plane back from Seattle to Connecticut.

I had a big duffel full of survival gear including knives, a .22 rifle, first aid kit and all kinds of stuff. I was a little nervous about it only 2 months after 9/11.

I was surprised when I had no trouble whatsoever. The woman at the check in said a lot of hunters go out west with rifles. It was pretty standard.

When i got to the security check in it was a whole 'nother story.

It seems that my carry-on containing an aviation handheld radio, mapping GPS and a full set of sectional charts from Seattle to New York FREAKED them out.

To make matters worse I had been letting the weather guide my departure date, so I had just purchased my ONE WAY ticket THAT DAY.

I was pushed up 3 levels of questioning. In all cases they were polite but definitely rattled. I finally asked them if they were done and they allowed me on the flight. But they must have tipped off the flight attendants because they stopped by my seat to chat me up and assess my status about every 15 minutes all the way from Hartford to Seattle.

At least you didn't have your JEPS with you. right? That would have been worse.
Total speculation on my part but....
It seems to me that if the TSA does scan checked luggage that the image of a gun would end up on the display and so would an identifying feature of a coded TSA tag?

Having said that i doubt that checked luggage gets much of an inspection..probably pretty random.
The tags are provided by the airlines and are not coded. And not visible on an x-ray. They are just plain paper
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