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A sobering reminder of the price of our freedom...

6K views 56 replies 39 participants last post by  Colt Carson 
#1 ·
I just came across this archival video on YouTube and thought some of you might be interested. In late 1944 a TBF Avenger came back to the carrier USS Essex after a mission, having taken a 40mm flak shell hit which shredded the rear turret and its gunner, Aviation Machinist Mate 2nd Class Loyce Edward Deen. The aircraft was deemed unsalvageable, and Deen's remains were so badly entangled in the wreck that it was decided to bury him at sea while still at his station inside his aircraft. It's a pretty surreal example of how World War Two wasn't all about John Wayne and Errol Flynn's heroic flag-waving escapades, and how our freedom has been paid for in blood over the years. Maybe it's something these cancel-culture idiots might want to consider.

Be forewarned that it may be disturbing content to some...

 
#3 · (Edited)
I just came across this archival video on YouTube and thought some of you might be interested. In early 1945 a TBF Avenger came back to the carrier USS Essex after a mission, having taken a 40mm flak shell hit which shredded the rear turret and its gunner, Aviation Machinist Mate 2nd Class Loyce Edward Deen. The aircraft was deemed unsalvageable, and Deen's remains were so badly entangled in the wreck that it was decided to bury him at sea while still at his station inside his aircraft. It's a pretty surreal example of how World War Two wasn't all about John Wayne and Errol Flynn's heroic flag-waving escapades, and how our freedom has been paid for in blood over the years. Maybe it's something these cancel-culture idiots might want to consider.

Be forewarned that it may be disturbing content to some...

I have read the accounts of wounded B-17s flying back with the hydraulic systems shot to pieces. They could not lower the landing gear, and could not rotate the ball turret to get the gunner out. They had to land on the belly of the plane. If knowing that, or watching a fully crewed B-17 fall out of the sky and no parachutes open, when you are silently begging them to on now 80 year old film, doesn't break your heart every time I don't understand you. It was a hard, horrible thing these men did, and the price these men paid to save the free world. When one of these soft skinned office dwellers (I'm a desk riding office dweller) says that covering Trump was their Omaha Beach, I want to beat them to the floor and drag them to one of the handful of vets from that fight still living and demand they apologize. I have too much respect for the people that have paid that price to let it slide, really hard to let it slide.

Sorry, there may be a little burbon involved letting my red neck show.

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#15 ·
When one of these soft skinned office dwellers (I'm a desk riding office dweller) says that covering Trump was their Omaha Beach, I want to beat them to the floor and drag them to one of the handful of vets from that fight still living and demand they apologize. I have too much respect for the people that have paid that price to let it slide, really hard to let it slide.
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I have a similar reaction every time someone refers to athletes as warriors.
 
#4 ·
Ironically, I just happened to watch that video not long before you posted it. It is very sobering.

I've been reading books about the Battle of Midway lately. I've always been interested in that battle, but just recently took the time to buy a few books and read the real-world accounts of the battle. There was a horrifically similar account in A Dawn Like Thunder where one of the Avengers (the other five were shot down) from Torpedo 8 turret gunner took a 20mm shell to the chest, and there was practically nothing left of the poor kid. The plane's controls were all shot up, and just before it hit the water, the pilot instinctively started adjusting the trip tabs and managed to get it leveled out. He flew something like 200 miles back to Midway with just trim controls and "guestimating" his bearings since his instruments were all shot out. It is utterly amazing what these young men, and kids, were able to do in the face of adversity.
 
#8 ·
Yes, in an eerie coincidence they had to do the same with that Avenger after it landed on Midway... grab a sheet and cover what was left of the tail gunner. Once I watched a program on Midway, and the radio operator on that plane was interviewed. At the time of the battle he was operating the .30 cal machine gun those aircraft had under the belly, and as he was shooting at the Japanese he said suddenly a bunch of warm blood rained down on him. He thought it was his at first, until he looked up at what was left of the tail gunner immediately above him and freaked out.

 
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#9 ·
Check out Lucky 666 by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin.
"The heart of everything that is."

These guys somehow managed to hang 17 fifty caliber guns out of a B-17 at some point. That some of them actually made it back surely indicates divine intervention.
 
#10 ·
Very difficult to watch. Good, however, to see a couple hundred crew members at the burial ceremony, treating it with due respect and reverance.

Thanks for posting.
 
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#16 ·
It's heart breaking to think about things like this and all the other sacrifices made by those who came before us just to wind up where we are now. How easily we forget the lessons of history and the wisdom of the men who put this country together. Just makes you sick how half our country now exists only to take what they can get while offering nothing in return. Hard to believe it happened so quickly.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for posting DSK....If you have Comcast, they have the History channel and also AHC, they often run war documentaries, "WW2 in color", and Korea and Nam. I've seen everyone many times now that I am in my 60's, but whenever I come across one I watch it again. America can never pay the debt to its veterans especially those who served in combat.

Last night I was watching the battle of Okinawa, and they did a deep-dive on the fight over Sugar Loaf hill on the Japanese Defensive Shuri line...The imagery is shocking and moving at the same time and I've watched many times through the years.

The difference as I age is that the suffering these Marines went through has a bigger impact on me then the actual fighting per se. Not to mention the Sailors at sea who withstood all those Kamikaze attackers off the coast of Okinawa.

This is just one example in a long history of courage and suffering our fighting men and women have gone through.

No matter what happens, I will always love this country, the country my Grandparents immigrated to in the earl 20th century, and offered up their sons to defend it in WW2, on land (Uncle) and sea (Dad)...And whose grand- children of those same immigrants served in their time in the Army and Navy. And that is why I will never stop fighting for this country politically.
 
#24 ·
As far as the cancel culture kids, at this point it will take a lot more for them to change...Hardship, skin in the game, responsibility, 2 years mandatory military service would be a good place to start.
 
#31 ·
Why??? Just because? Part of what made America the great nation that it is today was that we didn't just conquer and assimilate Japan and Germany afterwards, even though we could have. Instead we helped them recover and rebuild after the war, and now both countries are thriving to the point where their young people don't even know much about the war. Not many victorious nations have ever done that in the entire history of human warfare. Dropping the first two bombs was a necessary evil, but dropping a third nuke on Japan just to remind them that we hated them would've been pure evil.
 
#27 ·
I had a great uncle who was a Navy TBF gunner who was killed in WW2. I’ve seen that video a few times over the years and it’s amazing on several levels. My stepfather was a radio operator on an A1 Skyraider in Korea. He was seriously wounded when the plane took Chinese ground fire over a target but no serious damage to the plane. Over a year in the VA hospital. Yes freedom is not free,,


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#30 ·
After the war, several units of the Tuskegee Airmen were assigned to Lockbourne AFB outside of Columbus Ohio (now Rickenbacker AFB). Many of the "Red Tails" remained in the Central Ohio area after they left the military. Over the years they have gone into schools, meetings, businesses, prisons and every other imaginable group to give talks and share examples of patriotism and some of the most respectable human behavior imaginable. I've had the personal pleasure of shaking hands with many of them over the years.
 
#32 ·
Well if posters here are interested. They might wish to peruse the episodes of the television series Twelve O'clock high. A series that ran several seasons back in the sixties. Of course it was a television show so they took certain liberties with it. But it was very interesting and a lot of what went on was grounded in factual events. Additionally they had a lot of actual footage included in the show. Unfortunately a lot of which was pretty tragic.

It was pretty educational for me. I came away thinking that they must have had a lot of casualties from friendly fire as well as from enemy fire. The tactic of closing in formation with .50 cals blazing away in every direction to ward off German fighters would almost have made this a sure thing.

Additionally interesting was that it was pointed out to new fliers that while the Jap zeroes (A modified Howard Hughes design) would almost without exception bust into flames when hit. The Merserschmidts would not generally do this and would not necessarily be out of the fight.

The series was interesting as well as you never knew who would show up as a guest star. They had everybody from Peter Fonda to Barbara Feldon on there at one time or another. Pretty good viewing if you like this sort of thing.
 
#34 ·
Well if posters here are interested. They might wish to peruse the episodes of the television series Twelve O'clock high. .......

The series was indeed good, however, the movie is beyond exceptional. My all-time favorite film by a long-shot. Talk about a study, not only of the air war, but also of command. The cast is superb, and the tone is truly military - you'll know what I mean when you watch it. This is one that I hope is forever left alone. There's no one in the movie business today who could pull off something like this again.
 
#33 ·
I know we're diverging from Real Life here, but to a purpose...

If you have Netflix, dig up "Five Came Back." It's the story, as told by Spielberg and Ub Iwerk's* grand-daughter, about the Five that went to WWII and film it.. Capra, Ford, Huston, Wyler, Stevens.

They all saw things, IRL, and filmed them. Some were shown at Nurenberg, and served to tighten the noose about a few necks just a bit tighter.

Some of those wartime films they made for propaganda are a very tough watch today. Seen Wyler's "Memphis Belle?" How about Ford's "Midway?"

How about "Let There Be Light?" I was tore up in that one. Not all wounds are caused by bullet, shell or blade. Not all wounds can be seen, or stitched up. A lot of my friends in PR had Korean and Vietnam vets for dads - enlisted, mainly Army. I went into the military eyes wide open, after hearing their tales for 10 years. Well, barely any tales. They didn't talk much. When they did... they were different people. And this film just made me T.T when I saw it. The didn't know what to call it when they made it, today we call it PTSD.

They all came back, and all made movies again. Capra made "It's A Wonderful Life." Wyler made "The Best Years of our Lives."

One, to me, stands out very brightly against the rest, so much so I bought it: Ford's "They Were Expendable"

Not every Hollywood war flick made is hokum. Some were heart-attack serious, and this was one of them. Ford cast a real PT boat skipper. The poor guy took 4 days to get ready to film, and Ford let him have the time. The actor was PTSDing real hard. You thought the submariners had it rough and had to pretty much forage/steal their supplies? PT boats were worse. No one cared about 'em, apparently, or the men who drove them. The title was dropped in the film as referring to the boats, but the context is that the men were just as expendable.

This one even had John Wayne in it. To hear Spielberg say it, they were trying to get this one scene done, and Wayne kept messing up the salute. Ford goes "G*damn it John, can't you salute like someone who's served?" At which point Wayne walked off the stage, and Ford broke down sobbing. In broad daylight, in full view of cast and crew. These two men were long-time friends, and this still happened.

Remember that, when you watch these immediately post-war movies.

I was raised by a pack of WWII vets and their crazy sisters. Not many stories. One of them was in Italy and saw Benito swing, I'm told. They didn't talk much about it. They didn't talk much about anything war-related, other than the machinery. The guy that saw Benito swing had a M1905 bayonet that looked longer than my arm.

And despite all that, I still signed up.

People have no idea what freedom cost.



* Ub Iwerks, a very early animator, worked with Disney in the very early days.
 
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