ACC-U-RAILS ON CARRY PISTOL?

Originally posted by PG:
Dotdot,
I should have been more specific. It had been a long day. I meant that I was not aware of a railed gun failing due to the accu-rails. In your situation, was the failure a product of a cheap frame or the accu-rails, or a combination? My reason for the rails on my carry gun was to much slide to frame slop and if I carry it , I will shoot it to remain competent. My thinking was that it would increase the useful life. I wanted steel on steel. I fired many full power loads, including corbon. I shot quite a few IPSC matches with it using hard-ball. It is still very tight with 100% reliability. It has been retired. From your post you must be an impressive steel shooter. Do you make out to the west coast for the steel challenge?

Take care,PG

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Howdy PG,
I think it just gave up the ghost due to wear. I think(look out now,I'm thinking!) that the instalation probably weakened the frame to some degree and that it probably would have stayed together w/o the Accu-Rail but would have surely gotten lose from all the use long before it expired. I don't want to say whose frame it was because I don't think it was the frame or the Accu-Rails that made it fail. I think how ever you set up a gun it only has so many rounds of life in it and I think I exceeded that number by one.
No, I never got too far out west. I am lucky that the mid west host a lot of the big matches at PASA and Chapman, I used the gun for steel locally and shot it in several of the Masters speed events. I also lived in the country and had a steel range set up in the back yard along with a ho-made plate rack and a set of Masters precision targets with a NRA action course short of the mover. Boy do I miss that place. I recently moved. Now when I do load development I have to pack up and drive 40 miles round trip. Before I would reload, shoot, go inside and crank the powder measure some and go back out and shoot some more. It was pretty convienent that any time I had to do anything I could walk around the back of the house and bang away.
I laid out for about four years due to a broken back and surgery but I am just now putting together a Limited rig for IPSC and hope to shoot again this spring. I doubt that I pursue it as much as I used to but I miss the people and the shooting. I have healed well and believe I can do it and not hurt myself. The last match I shot was an Area III and I finished third B limited. I think it will be hard to get back to that level. Good luck with your aluminum gun.
dotdot

There is a reason Clint Smith recommends ball ammo. He carries a light weight Commander a lot for his and his families personal protection.

I do also.

If you want the gun to run and are betting your life and your families on it, my suggestion is keep it simple which in turn will be reliable.

No rails, regular barrel ramp....ie two parts, frame ramp and barrel throat. Use Wilson mags and shoot ball or a ball style HP. I am less worried about ball ammo than I am about ramp wear and tear after the anodizing is gone from a Colt frame so I stick to ball. You do your part, the ammo and gun will do its.

The steel EGW is a better idea. But even it isn't madatory if you stick to the other basics.

My suggestion is search out and talk to guys who shoot and carry LTW Commanders for serious use and burn rounds through them.

Sometimes money is not the answer or the fix, basics are.




[This message has been edited by Dane Burns (edited 02-22-2001).]

LW ramp inserts: I don't like the EGW method of set screwing and LocTiting it in. It needs to be held in positively, mechanically. LocTite is fine for certain things but does not have a place on our guns being depended upon to hold in a critical part like this. This is right in there taking a beating on one side from rounds impacting on it during the feeding cycle; on the other (front) side, it is in line to get the impact pulse from the slide banging off on the frame.... not to mention the underside of the barrel banging down on top of the insert as the barrel links down. A set screw is not the answer either-- screws come loose (sometimes), and if it is tight enough to really do its job well, it is stressing something. If that something is thick and solid, fine, but if that something is a piece of aluminum with lots of sharp-bottomed cuts going in various directions, and to boot is subject to sharp impacts, well, something might give eventually. I am currently doing a Commander for a customer and am inserting the ramp in such a way as to be mechanically sound and shake-out-proof. I'll provide some pics when I get to that point.

Originally posted by Larry Vickers:
Virtually unlimited reasources at my work place have given me the opportunity to learn some things about guns and shooting over the 12 plus years I've been here - I've simply been exposed to more than any civilian I know. Much of what I know I can't share but what I can I will - some of you may like it, some (obviously) will not. So be it.

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Let me be forthright here, Larry. I think you have some good info, I obviously think you build a decent gun (other wise I would have never have ordered two from you). My "liking" what you have to say has nothing to do with your commentary. I just disagree with the value you seem to place on the "millions of rounds" you "see" go down range.

My problem starts when you take a homogenous population with the same ammo, guns, same gunsmiths, mags, training. Then start telling me that when you shoot a million rounds it means that info translates across the board for the civilian population and consumer.

I am still willing to bet that the civilian (citizens and LE) population shoots more folks with hand guns every year than all the US military combined. Your unit is a tiny part of that program and although more likely to use a hand gun offensivly, your data is miniscule compared to the overall stats in the US of all hand gun shootings.

A good (Master or above) IPSC shooter, some where in their career, will put 1000 rounds a week down range. They will see 5 to 10K rounds a weekend put down range. That is only 400K to 500K rounds a year for a decent IPSC match shooter.

There are 3 or 4 gunsmiths I want building me guns. Of those even fewer have burned that amount of ammo and applied that education to building guns. Even fewer have looked down the sights of a 1911 at another human being on multiple occasions.

It is clear that you think the experience of seeing a million rounds fired a year is of great value to you. I am sure it makes a difference in how you build a gun. ( which is why I am in line for 2)

I have had this discussion of "experience" more than once and will freely admit that it is always the ones without the "experience" that argue that the particular experience has little value. Which is exactly what I am doing now

I'm a little hard headed though. I find it difficult to believe that spec op shooters and custom guns, a zillion rounds a years tells a lot more than what any good competitor gets in a year for experience or the actual documented shooting info for the civilian side.

You keep repeating the reference (ammo your group burns)in your posts, I just had to point out that I don't think it does make a difference.....from my limited experience of course.

It is not a dislike, just a disagreement.

Back to ball ammo. The real issue of civilian shootings is that the shooter needs to hit the target. Most people in a self defense shooting don't, civilian or LE. If you have the option of buying ball at $10 for a box or designer HPs at $30 for half as many, I suggest buy ball every time. Buy it and shoot it. A lot of it. Ball will solve the problem if you can solve the problem in 45.

Most folks don't burn up 25K rounds of ammo a year and the little practice they do get is never enough.

Some times it is too easy to overlook the basics of what a gun is for and what it takes to use one to good effect.

Larry,
Never questioned you can shoot. But so can a few other smiths. You aren't the only one.

Lighten up

I respect your opinions because you can actually shoot which I already knew. And you build a very nice gun. Which is obvious. Not because your unit burns a million rounds of 45 a year.

I don't think spec op experience translates well into civilian self defense which is all I am concerned with. Hence the ball ammo thread.

If there is one thing you aren't it's "vague", Larry.

Enjoyed the conversation.

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Dane Burns www.burnscustom.com

[This message has been edited by Dane Burns (edited 02-25-2001).]