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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Loaded question I know with lotsa variances, but I ran into a problem with my new .380 all my manuals say coal .980 so thats my starting point reference and Im ok with + or - 5 thousandths some time Depending.
So im plunking these rounds and all is well loaded about 2 dozen to try .and Im off to the range.
Well they all plunk and shoot well but are too long for the magazine , So I have these loaded at max so no way am I going to seat shorter,
So I find a lighter bullet that i can seat deeper these are 100 grn. Im looking for something lighter but no luck so far or reseat these staggering the seating depth and watching them closely or reload some at minimum charge and seat deep enough to work freely in the magazine. In any event very slowly here.
Now what would you do ?
The powder is CFE and yes I know differnt powder gives me shoter COAL like BE 86 and I have some but its for a 90/95 grn. The other powders I dont have so differnt powder or Lighter bullets, would be the safe way to travel Right ?
Best/Picker
 

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So I have these loaded at max so no way am I going to seat shorter,
2 dozen? I'd just pull them. That's just enough to be a good reminder to check plunk, mag and crimp each time you set up on a new load! This is also a good reminder not to start at max.

Pulling sucks but do it once or twice and you won't make the same mistake again.

You should absolutely be able to use those bullets seated deeper, with a lesser charge. (assuming they were intended for use in .380)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I would look at some factory ammo that has a similar shape bullet and copy the dimensions.
That is what got me to thinking I have some factory stuff that is .935 Federal 100 grn HST
Picker
2 dozen? I'd just pull them. That's just enough to be a good reminder to check plunk, mag and crimp each time you set up on a new load! This is also a good reminder not to start at max.

Pulling sucks but do it once or twice and you won't make the same mistake again.

You should absolutely be able to use those bullets seated deeper, with a lesser charge. (assuming they were intended for use in .380)
I always plunk everything never have plunked them in the mag tho [smile].... PS Pulling these dont solve the problem, does it ? I usually start at min. load like moost but this lil gun has such a strong spring I thought no way would it cycle at light loads.

picker
 

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Plunk test is one thing, mags are another. When loading a new bullet I always test both as I have paid the price just like you.

For 2 dozen or so if they shoot fine I would load each one in the gun and shoot it one by one as that is quicker than pulling and a lot more fun.

I hate pulling bullets. I still have a handful of mistakes in various calibers waiting for me down on my bench to pull and fix.

Good luck.

Shorting the round is not a good idea but it takes a good amount of shorting a round to create a an overpressure situation.



This is a very old picture that I took when I was new to pistol reloading. This is 40 S&W. This is the second mag of rounds that I shot that day. The mag for this gun is an eight round mag. Notice that you are seeing six unfired and one fired round.

I hate to post this but this happened to me so I hope this helps someone else avoid this mistake.

I was shooting these rounds that clearly don't have a good neck tension and taper crimp. I saw the rounds shorting but figured these were still ok. The reason I saw some of the shorting was they did not feed perfectly so I did notice it. I was really STUPID. Good thing this was a steel framed gun. The one fired round you see went overpressure blowing the mag out of the bottom of the gun and destroying the mag. I sent the gun (EMP 40 S&W) to SAI to have them check it over. The gun was fine but the mag was toast. I ended up with a sore hand but nothing else. I still feel like I was protected.



This is the gun after it came back from SAI.

The round that blew up was probably really short like round number 2 left to right in the picture.

So, some slight shorting is not an issue like bullet #6 but anything more and I would be careful
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Plunk test is one thing, mags are another. When loading a new bullet I always test both as I have paid the price just like you.

For 2 dozen or so if they shoot fine I would load each one in the gun and shoot it one by one as that is quicker than pulling and a lot more fun.

I hate pulling bullets. I still have a handful of mistakes in various calibers waiting for me down on my bench to pull and fix.

Good luck.

Shorting the round is not a good idea but it takes a good amount of shorting a round to create a an overpressure situation.



This is a very old picture that I took when I was new to pistol reloading. This is 40 S&W. This is the second mag of rounds that I shot that day. The mag for this gun is an eight round mag. Notice that you are seeing six unfired and one fired round.

I hate to post this but this happened to me so I hope this helps someone else avoid this mistake.

I was shooting these rounds that clearly don't have a good neck tension and taper crimp. I saw the rounds shorting but figured these were still ok. The reason I saw some of the shorting was they did not feed perfectly so I did notice it. I was really STUPID. Good thing this was a steel framed gun. The one fired round you see went overpressure blowing the mag out of the bottom of the gun and destroying the mag. I sent the gun (EMP 40 S&W) to SAI to have them check it over. The gun was fine but the mag was toast. I ended up with a sore hand but nothing else. I still feel like I was protected.



This is the gun after it came back from SAI.

The round that blew up was probably really short like round number 2 left to right in the picture.

So, some slight shorting is not an issue like bullet #6 but anything more and I would be careful
Thanks for the picture story I think you have a good idea just shoot one at a time, Then I got to either find a lighter bullet or use some BE-86 starting low and going higher, the recipe I have is for a 95grn with BE 86 the bullets I have are 100 grn, but starting low and slow might be the answer.
Picker
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the picture story I think you have a good idea just shoot one at a time, Then I got to either find a lighter bullet or use some BE-86 starting low and going higher, the recipe I have is for a 95grn with BE 86 the bullets I have are 100 grn, but starting low and slow might be the answer.
Picker
One of the things I keep thinking about is if I shorten these just 25 thousandths I may have me a good load. And I may not need that much.
Best/picker
 

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Probably time to invest in this.

grip-n-pull

A little expensive, but not if you consider how many calibers it can pull.
It really goes quickly.
poke bullet up through top of press, grab, lower press.
There are other brands, many made of aluminum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Probably time to invest in this.

grip-n-pull

A little expensive, but not if you consider how many calibers it can pull.
It really goes quickly.
poke bullet up through top of press, grab, lower press.
There are other brands, many made of aluminum.
I already have a puller or 2 [smile]
Picker
 

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When I load a strange new bullet with no sample available, this is what I do.
...
1. Seat it out far enough so it hits rifling, then back it off.
2. Measure the width of the mag tube.
3. See what the "tip length" of the round is. It should be less than the inside width of the mag tube.
4. Seat and crimp your bullet such that the tip length is less than the size of the inside width of the mag tube.

So what the heck is tip length??

It's a measurement that I thought about a few years ago. There might be another name for it but I don't know. Basically, it's the COAL when you tip the round a few degrees. For round nose bullets, it's usually the same as coal, but for hollow points it's larger. Look at my awful drawing.

When I do this, I know that the bullet bearing surface will be as close to the rifling as possible.
Rifle shooters do this to improve accuracy.
I also know that it will not bind in the mag.
Whether or not it actually will feed under fire is unknown because there are other factors like the feed ramp, magazine feed angles, and action timing.
But it will get you in the ball park.
 

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For what it may (or may not) be worth, I downloaded this pdf a while ago and printed out the relevant pages. I keep them in a handy place in my reloading room and refer back to them from time to time just to double check things. If you download the pistol version, your info is on page 59.

 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
When I load a strange new bullet with no sample available, this is what I do.
...
1. Seat it out far enough so it hits rifling, then back it off.
2. Measure the width of the mag tube.
3. See what the "tip length" of the round is. It should be less than the inside width of the mag tube.
4. Seat and crimp your bullet such that the tip length is less than the size of the inside width of the mag tube.

So what the heck is tip length??

It's a measurement that I thought about a few years ago. There might be another name for it but I don't know. Basically, it's the COAL when you tip the round a few degrees. For round nose bullets, it's usually the same as coal, but for hollow points it's larger. Look at my awful drawing.

When I do this, I know that the bullet bearing surface will be as close to the rifling as possible.
Rifle shooters do this to improve accuracy.
I also know that it will not bind in the mag.
Whether or not it actually will feed under fire is unknown because there are other factors like the feed ramp, magazine feed angles, and action timing.
But it will get you in the ball park.
I like this and will practise it, I just never thought of all the reloading manuals I have not a one reallized their COAL would not work in a Glock mag
 

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I like this and will practise it, I just never thought of all the reloading manuals I have not a one reallized their COAL would not work in a Glock mag
Most of those manuals pre-date a .380 Glock, don't they? (thinking that's a pretty new gun, no?)
 

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Even Glocks meet SAAMI dimensions and load just like every other gun.
Take a box of factory ammo and measure COL. That is a nominal estimate for acceptable variation.
Next, what are you going to do to minimize variations? Do any loading manuals tell you to control COL or simply set and go?
Measure your bullets. Bullet overall length (BOL) is where quite a bit of COL variation comes from, along with geometry variations.
 

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I have always run my 380 at .975 - so it would fit well in the magazines.

3.7 gr CFE Pistol was a good load for me but I don't have chrono data on it.

2.6 gr of Titegroup under 100 grain Berry's gave me acerage 780 fps.
 

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One of the things I keep thinking about is if I shorten these just 25 thousandths I may have me a good load. And I may not need that much.
Best/picker
CFE, has about the same loading density as a few other powders common for this caliber.
Did you really just dump in the max load? You should be able to achieve the COL you want without compressing the load…..right?
 

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12 rounds wont take much to pull if you ask me. Why risk all the unknowns for 12 bullets ,hell i have pulled lots of 50-100 back in the day .But I still have all my fingers and all my GUNS !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The solution was simple I reseated to .975 and they shot fine, I usually work up but like I stated this lil gun is new and i doubt a weaker charge would cycle it.
Best/picker
 
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