1911Forum banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Questions for Colt/1991 Afficianados... Thank You for Reading...
I saw what I believe to be a fair deal on a used 1991. It's the all matte stainless with the Videki(sp?) trigger. It's clean and tight, looks like its been shot little as there's very little wear on any of the parts, so I put her on layaway. Okay,

1)The bar code on the blue case says "Custom Colt 1991..." Is this because of the V trigger or was this put together at the Custom Shop?
2)Does anyone know about how long this 1991 w/V. has been on the market? (trying to figure approximate manufacture.)
3)What MIM parts are on this model? Some say the sear and parts in the action. I hope not...Oh well...Thanks Again,
~TomP
 

·
Super Moderator
EDC: SIG P938.
Joined
·
22,286 Posts
My '91A1 is an older model, 1998 production. The parts that I identified as cast (not necessarily MIM): hammer, disconnector, extractor, grip safety, thumb safety. I'm not sure about the sear, but I replaced it anyway.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,082 Posts
It is really strange how questions are getting these days. I want to know about a gun made at most a year ago exactly the day it was manufactured and what parts will say mom on them? How about the disconnector will say mom on the lower left of the wear strip and it was made on friday. Oh mim parts sorry I did'nt get that. Mim parts are'nt Colt, they are Kimber and Springfield Armory( aka single action SA).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,388 Posts
Your gun is a Lew Horton Distributing "special", with the Videki installed in the Custom Shop. They have been available for about a year, I believe.

As for MIM - I have it on good authority (Colt's General Foreman, Handguns)that the only MIM parts Colt has used so far are the grip safety (which was always cast anyway) and the thumb safety - both low stress parts. The cheaper competition is forcing them to look at using more MIM - which would be unfortunate, if necessary to compete on price.

And RickB, I'm not at all sure that the parts you listed are cast, even though some do have that appearance.

The important thing is that regardless of the processes employed, Colt does not suffer from extensive parts failures like the Clone guns do. Thus their choices of materials and processes would seem to be the correct ones.

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits and Patent Infringements"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Col. Colt,

I always appreciate your posts, both for your general knowledge and for your love of Colts.

I posted a question on the Colt board not too long ago about Colt sears. On the Brownell's site, under Wilson parts, Bill Wilson goes on at length about 10 ways to improve your 1911 handgun. At one point he mentions replacing Colt's sear. I understood this to mean it was a MIM part.

From your above reply, I gather then this is not the case? I only ask because I have a Colt Govt. XSE on lawaway, only $149 more to go!

Best Wishes, LBC
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,130 Posts
I would respectfully disagree
Colt has been using a MIM sear since 198_
When at a Previous shop we looked for ser 70 sears to do action jobs, the MIM sear
rockwelled at 50 ish sometimes 48
the ser 70 colt at 54 ish.
Look at the side of a sear. if there is the tell tale round ejector pin marks it will tell you the story.
Now look at the disconector in a colt, same deal. Now the mag catch. Hard to drill, try to anneal it. Black stuff comes out when you try? why? mim. Colt just did not wave the flag as they changed over. quietly.
That said I have seen ONE colt mim sear fail in 15 years.
MIM parts I would avoid
#1 Barrel bushing. the bottom breaks off the gun is disabled.
#2 Sear.
For a trusted gun I would skip the MIM
hammer, sear, disconector,front sight, bushing, Ejector, extracror, Firing pin stop,
and thumb safety. Because I have seen them break or wear quickly.
MIM Beavertail, Main spring housing Sure go for it.
geo ><>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,388 Posts
George, I do know that Colt parts do not have the serious reliability problems that are common on Kimber, etc. I also know that there are three different companies that MIM for the gun industry - and only one of them is considered "high quality" output by Chip McCormick, the "guru" of MIM.

Also, I believe Colt does machine some parts from conventional steel castings - more of a known, believable quality, I would think. Is it possible that that is what you are seeing reference mold marks, etc? What I reported is what I understand from talking with Colt, in reference to what current manufacturing methods they are using on the production line right now. I do not claim to know if they have ever used MIM, I did not ask about that. They do acknowledge that they use it currently for the grip safety and the safety lock.

At any rate, in twenty six years I have seen very few factory Colt parts failures - whatever technology they are using, works. It could be that their manufacturing specs just result in very reliable parts - and that is, after all, what we are all interested in.

And although the concept of MIM makes me uneasy, if it can be made in such a way AND PROVEN to be as reliable as the older methods - then I could probably accept it. If Colt has already "quietly" achieved this, maintaining it's reputation all the while for good parts, (and Kimber certainly has not) more power to them. It would be ironic if Colt was the one who proved MIM could be done right, given that it is necessary for Kimber's exisence - and causes them such grief! Perhaps we can get some additional comment from other knowledgeable posters.

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counerfeits and Patent Infringements"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,130 Posts
"George, I do know that Colt parts do not have the serious reliability problems that are
common on Kimber, etc."
I agree Sir. They are hi quality MIM parts. I just wanted to keep it strait that they are mim parts used and have been for years.

" I also know that there are three different companies that MIM
for the gun industry - and only one of them is considered "high quality" output by Chip
McCormick, the "guru" of MIM."

Kimber MFG bought a mim company that was in fl I am told. they had some growing pains probably.
If Colt was using mim in the early 80's I suspect that colt is the guru of mim.
" Also, I believe Colt does machine some parts from conventional steel castings - more of a
known, believable quality, I would think. Is it possible that that is what you are seeing
reference mold marks, etc?"
Mim is Metal injection molding. they squirt the parts like in plastic and Cook the parts.
Many Co. do it well. Baretta MIM's there transfer bar. The interesting thing is they shrink when they cook em. the Baretta transfer bar iirc shrinks over 3/8" in the process. That is some good work to controal that. Unit cost after the mold is made and consitantcy is the good stuff. the strength is not on par with your forging and bar stock work. Another co has problems with the sear only touching on one side of the hammer. the parts are moving around a LOT when cooking.

" What I reported is what I understand from talking with Colt,
in reference to what current manufacturing methods they are using on the production
line right now. I do not claim to know if they have ever used MIM, I did not ask about
that. They do acknowledge that they use it currently for the grip safety and the safety
lock."

I do not wish do make a big deal of this, you seem Like a Very knowledgable guy! I have not taken a 6 month old colt appart so I can not say one this week is mim. I can say a couple year old colt will have a MIM mag catch disc sear... in the gun. (the marks are like the ones in a Modle kit we would build. they are the ejector pins to knock the part out of the mold. (take your guns appart, you can see for yourself. Please question this)
"At any rate, in twenty six years I have seen very few factory Colt parts failures -
whatever technology they are using, works. It could be that their manufacturing specs
just result in very reliable parts - and that is, after all, what we are all interested in."

Again I agree. one sear in 15 years is not too shabby! I have a failed mag catch and other parts in my personal collection. but Yes the colt stuff is good. Now to make a bushing out of MIM I would not want that.

"And although the concept of MIM makes me uneasy, if it can be made in such a way AND
PROVEN to be as reliable as the older methods - then I could probably accept it. If Colt
has already "quietly" achieved this, maintaining it's reputation all the while for good parts,
(and Kimber certainly has not) more power to them. It would be ironic if Colt was the one
who proved MIM could be done right, given that it is necessary for Kimber's exisence -
and causes them such grief! Perhaps we can get some additional comment from other
knowledgeable posters."

And risk flogging from the Kimber contingant?

Thanks for your reply Col. I have seen your posts before and you are a good guy!
Did you know the early 1911 they extruded the sear? Immagine a 6' long sear. they sliced it up. I think they used 1080 so they could be plenty hard. How can we Make a good gun and reliable and maintain quality, that is the question.
Warmly, Col. Colt

geo ><>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I just dug through my box of factory Colt parts. The box has odds and ends from two series 70 pistols, an old series 80, and a newer series 80. Out of 13 parts, I found what I take to be MIM marks on just one part, a disconnector. I think it was from the later series 80, but I'm not sure.

I'm pretty sure about the MIM identification, since I have a box of Kimber parts for comparison.

The MIM parts don't bother me too much, I've had no problems with breakage in over 20,000 rounds between two Colts and a Kimber. But I still replace them sometimes.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I just talked to a friend of mine who got a new XSE this last weekend. He said it was full of MIM. He's out of state, so I haven't had a chance to see the gun, but he generally knows what he talks about.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top