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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long, but you might find it interesting after all the airport hype. I sent this to our daughter after we got home from hiking southern Utah with her for a few days.


"Well, I did it this time but came out smelling like a rose! When we re packed for our return flight I was sure I had emptied my back pack completely before filling it with the dirty clothes, toys and other items.

I hate going into remote areas where one might get hurt w/o any means to make a splint, or walking staff. So I had my trusty 3 1/2 inch blade folding knife in my waist pack when in southern Utah. I packed the waist pack in the checked bag, but alas the knife remained unseen by me in the back pack.

After emptying my pockets in the little bowl and clearing walk through security I waited for my pack to come out of the conveyer belt. The security man there struck up a pleasant conversation about travel while we waited. Then the guy with his head in the x-ray machine said "Come look at this, I can't make it out". They ran the bag through again. I thought it was my phone, camera or the electric remote toy cars.

The man on my end of the conveyer brought the bag out and said, "Sorry, but I've got to check your bag." I said, "Fine there's nothing in there to be concerned about." Out came the dirty clothes, cell phone, camera, toys and then his surgical gloved hand came up with the knife in it's sheath. The knife seem to grow larger as the seconds past by. For a moment I thought I felt the breath of Attorney General John Ashcroft on the back of my neck. Visions of the interrogation room and the Salt Lake Jail flashed through my mind. "My, that's a good looking knife", he said. "I don't know if you have time to find your checked bag to put it in before your flight, or not." Thoughts of loosing that knife were distressing because I've tried to find another just like it with no luck. I know I stammered as I tried to excuse away my foolish mistake, but I knew the knife was down the tube for good. The man laid his hand on my shoulder and sounded almost apologetic as he said "We can help you here. I'm going to take your knife over to that table and list it on the clip board. You can go around this corner to the gift shop and buy a envelope, stamps and mail it to your self." I couldn't believe it!

Off to the gift shop, with a uniformed policeman standing not 25 feet away watching me, where I ask for the idiot envelope for people who make mistakes.
The nice little old lady said "Don't feel bad, we sell a lot of envelopes."

Then to the table with the LIST of IDIOT ITEMS. The uniformed lady, also wearing the blue surgical gloves, said "Which item is yours?". "Oh, that's a good looking knife, as she pulled it from the sheath and opened it's now ten foot blade." The cop was still watching. Then a male voice from behind me spoke, "I collect knives, what kind is it?" The voice belonged to a uniformed security guy, about 6'5" with more of the blue surgical gloves. He fondled the knife and we discussed the quality of steel in the blade. Finally the lady took the knife, closed the twenty foot blade, placed it in the envelope and said "I'll put a piece of tape over the flap just to be sure."

As we walked to our gate I wondered what Mom was thinking! This is the dunce whom I just celebrated 39 years with? At the moment I didn't care, I was free.

36 hours from the time of our flight my knife appeared in our mail box, back to it's usual size.

I never knew airport security could be such nice people from the horror stories one hears!

Dunce Dad"

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Words of Wisdom, By Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
 

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This reminds me of the TSA lady at the Memphis airport. Upon inspecting that my checked 1911 was unloaded she asked, "Are you a leo?". Now she was cute so I thought maybe she was flurting. So I said, "No, actually I'm a cancer and I am married." Couldn't figure out why she laughed then realized she meant LEO!
 

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The fact is these new security preparations are nothing but an expensive joke in rather poor taste.

I dont believe another aircraft will be hijacked in the United States with a knife. They should just let them on.
 

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The problem is they look for weapons--not terrorists. It's the same logic as the anti gun folks use: "...Get rid of the weapons, and we'll all be safe." Wrong. Get rid of the terrorists and we'll all be safe.

Truth is, there are about a million things you can turn into a weapon, if you have the desire to do harm. You can take a credit card and a nail file and make one hell of an edge. Slide it into the slot in your wallet and, bingo, you got box cutter.

Unfortunately, we didn't learn how deadly PCness is pre-911, and still haven't learned it post-911. I wonder exactly how many more people will have to die before we start singling out arabs instead of 90 yr old ladies.

p.s. before anyone jumps on me for the arab comment, be ready to name one terrorist attack--besides OK City--that was perpetrated by someone other than a muslim.
 

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Forstr said:
p.s. before anyone jumps on me for the arab comment, be ready to name one terrorist attack--besides OK City--that was perpetrated by someone other than a muslim.
Sure:
Weathermen
Black Panthers
KKK
SLA
The Move
Aryan Nations
Earth First
DC Snipers

Sorry, I didn't research any further...These just came up in my mind in about the same amount of time it took me to type it.
 

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Mus said:
[email protected]

The fact is these new security preparations are nothing but an expensive joke in rather poor taste.

I dont believe another aircraft will be hijacked in the United States with a knife. They should just let them on.
The FACT is, while security procedures at airports are not 100%, they are a neccessary evil.

The other FACT is, the government can't and shouldn't make policy based on what Mus or me or anyone else thinks , they should make it on evidence. And there is ample evidence for having airport security.
 

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In my opinion the fact that the screening is in place is all that's needed to prevent hijackers from trying to smuggle contraband on board. I'll admit that a lone nut might give it a try, and might succeed, but organized hijackers won't risk it. They simply cannot afford to get caught the way a percentage of test personel do. Always remember that the September 11 hijackings were carried out with items which were allowed on board. If a hijacking attempt is made, and it requires objects which are not allowed, other means will be found to get them on the plane. The best deterent to hijackings now is actually the attacks of September 11. Passengers will no longer sit passively if one is attempted. Stay safe, Gary
 

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Coming back from a rather unproductive and poorly guided elk hunt in September 2000, I left a folding tree saw in my back pack. I didn't realize how lethal it looked until they started giving me the official "eyeball". I was in such a bad mood that I told the guy I wasn't going to check it, he could take it home to his kid. This was pre-9/11 of course.

Ironically, I had left for the hunt from New Orleans with the same saw and a small pair of hand held pruning shears in the same pack. Of course they said nothing in New Orleans.
 

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LW McVay said:
Sure:
Weathermen
Black Panthers
KKK
SLA
The Move
Aryan Nations
Earth First
DC Snipers

Sorry, I didn't research any further...These just came up in my mind in about the same amount of time it took me to type it.
I'll give you the possibility of the DC snipers because I have no idea what their motivation was. Maybe I should have been more clear: A terrorist attack that was religously motivated, and designed to kill as many Americans as possible, without regard to ethnic background.
 

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LW McVay said:
The FACT is, while security procedures at airports are not 100%, they are a neccessary evil.
I just think its funny that we are spending so much on a system that doesnt work very well. We federalized all those employees just like the Israelis, and just like the Israelis we are finding it to be terribly wasteful and ineffective.

LW McVay said:
The other FACT is, the government can't and shouldn't make policy based on what Mus or me or anyone else thinks , they should make it on evidence. And there is ample evidence for having airport security.
There is ample evidence that the security has gaping holes in it. There is ample evidence that paying the same people more money doesnt equal better security. There was ample evidence from looking at what the Israelis tried and what they ended up with that this would be a failure before it started. Im tired of these BS illusion of security measures. Shaking down Medal of Honor winners and Grandmas at the airport. Its crap.

Gary W Trott said:
The best deterent to hijackings now is actually the attacks of September 11. Passengers will no longer sit passively if one is attempted. Stay safe, Gary
Agree 100%.
 

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LW McVay said:
Sure:
Weathermen
Black Panthers
KKK
SLA
The Move
Aryan Nations
Earth First
DC Snipers
Beat me to it. I hadnt heard him specify in the US even so I was thinking about PIRA, Basque Seperatists, Baeder Meinhoff Gang (sp?), FARC, M19, etc.
 

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Guys, I'm not talking about Ireland, Spain, Germany, or Marxism. My comment was in the context of the terrorists who pose a threat to us NOW. They are Islamists. My whole point is that, by refusing to engage in "ethnic profiling" and succumbing to PCness, we are inviting the murder of more Americans. I say again, look for terrorists--not just weapons. And like Mus said, and I said before that, don't shake down little kids and old ladies to fill your quota of random searches. They are not the ones we have to worry about!
 

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But didn't we find a WHITE Muslim fighting against us in Afghanistan. Do you honestly think he's the only one. What about black Muslims? Yes, so far, all terrorist acts committed by Al Queda have been by people of Arabic origins. That doesn't mean they will continue to do so.

I think the original post had more to do with the fact that some of the screeners can be friendly and understanding, unlike the rude, ignorant screeners that make the news.
 

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Yes... "A" white muslim. Even if there were a hundred of them, it is insignificant compared to 1 billion+

And once we are attacked by a white one or a black one, I will start calling for more stringent security on them. Until that time, let's deal with reality, and the people who have shown themselves to be a threat.

EDIT: I would be especially suspicious of a white guy, wannabe Taliban coming through airport security.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
[ddstanle:
I think the original post had more to do with the fact that some of the screeners can be friendly and understanding, unlike the rude, ignorant screeners that make the news. ]

That was the point I tried to make. This group of screeners were all in a good mood, and almost apologetic that they inconvenienced me. I'm a retired gray haired guy and bathed that morning, so maybe I didn't fit the local profile of who they were trained to give a bad time. The uniformed cop heard and saw the whole thing and looked like he was bored.
 

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You should also consider that terrorists will probably do what drug runners do. They use the most innocent looking people as mules for their drugs. Pregnant women have always been the most popular drug runners because they were seldom checked. Security officers would let the women pass.

Terrorists could easily enlist the help of children or other people to help them get weapons past security if we did not check them all. This includes 90 year old ladies.
 

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If you were doing proper passenger screening like the Isrealis do there wouldnt be anyone to use the weapons on the other side of security.
 

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Best Security I've Ever Seen

One of the best security systems that I have ever seen to check for real terrorists was used by the British some 20+ years ago.

I was on a flight from Dublin to London at the time that the IRA was planting bombs in London aimed at the civilian population. When we got of the airplane the exit was up a relatively long, moderately steep ramp. The ramp incline was steep enough that it slowed you down a bit.

At the top of the ramp were three British Police Officers behind a counter who were carefully scanning the people coming up the ramp. They probably were looking for specific faces as well as people who might fit a particular profile. As I passed by the counter, I noticed that these officers were quite well armed (they were carrying sidearms and there was a ready box under the counter that looked to be just about the right size to hold a submachine gun).
 

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Here at Newark Airport the TSA still allow people to carry knives aboard airplanes. Guess they already forgot about Flight 93.

Once they did complain about one guy who was carrying hollowpoints in his .45 ACP.
 

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Forstr said:
Yes... "A" white muslim. Even if there were a hundred of them, it is insignificant compared to 1 billion+

And once we are attacked by a white one or a black one, I will start calling for more stringent security on them. Until that time, let's deal with reality, and the people who have shown themselves to be a threat.

EDIT: I would be especially suspicious of a white guy, wannabe Taliban coming through airport security.
See, that's my point. What's a white guy, wannabe Taliban, look like? You can't just look at one group of people. Be more aware of them maybe, but don't put all your attention on one group. Remember, the group that committed that 9/11 attacks had shaved off their beards, a symbol in the Taliban, and had been out at bars drinking the 2 or 3 days prior to 9/11. Very un-Muslim like qualities.

The system is not perfect, but it does weed out the obvious threats. As someone in the thread previously stated, the same kind of attack that was carried out will most likely fail in the future, because the people on board will stop it. That doesn't mean another type of attack won't happen, but not again will a group of passengers think they are just being hijacked and taken to another country.

If we allow ourselves to begin racially profiling, we return to an America we've tried for 40 years to get away from and become no better than the countries that America stands against.
 
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