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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
court TV "closing arguments with vinnie".

Wow, JS is ripping Alec for being criminally negligent.

JS stepping through all the steps for safety. Even goes into how with a 6'er colt 45 revolver, if you are expecting a click your grip is most likely light, and if you expect just a click and the thing goes BANG, you'll likely hurt your hand.

JS going on to say none of what Alec is saying, makes any sense what-so-ever. JS cannot believe what Alec is saying.
 

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Even if the DA fails to act the families of those shot can still sue.
Yeah... most likely the revolver manufacturer (Pietta). Baldwin will just pass out some hush money and that'll be the end of it.
 
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The handgun provider and movie copany are the ones that should pay . Hand a functional handgun to a idiot thats not a gun guy and chit can , will and does happen all the time . The handgun was not safety checked and passed along to a alex by some one other than the firearm people , some director wasn't it . There so much that went wrong on this movie set .

And then theres John Schneider , just one more hollywood mutt hoping to get that next job by staying in the news for something other than going to jail a few years ago for no paying alimony . Not like he's a well respected actor or person or a firearm expert .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
JS was just reviewing the protocols, and how an experienced actor like AB failed to follow the protocols.

From my light, clear vision, I see civil cases against those in the chain who passed it along loaded, and civil & criminal charges against AB. Who actually pays and who actually goes to jail is still TBD.
 
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The handgun provider and movie copany are the ones that should pay . Hand a functional handgun to a idiot thats not a gun guy and chit can , will and does happen all the time . The handgun was not safety checked and passed along to a alex by some one other than the firearm people , some director wasn't it . There so much that went wrong on this movie set .

And then theres John Schneider , just one more hollywood mutt hoping to get that next job by staying in the news for something other than going to jail a few years ago for no paying alimony . Not like he's a well respected actor or person or a firearm expert .
I agree, I would be really surprised if any criminal charges come from this. Many of us don’t like Baldwin and many of us are not familiar with how it actually works on a movie set where the pistol is intentionally pointed at the camera for some special effect.

On the civil side I think I understand what’s happening since I’ve done this kind of thing for a living for many decades. Apparently the parent organization doing the movie “ Rust LLC“ or whatever it was has an indemnity agreement with Baldwin. That kind of thing is fairly common as I understand and it is a contractual agreement where the parent company of the whole production agrees to indemnify certain actors for any claims of negligence etc. Indemnity basically means that if Baldwin is held liable for $10 then he gets the $10 back from the LLC making the movie.

It seems that after this horrible thing occurred, everybody wanted to become a gun expert and give opinions/interviews and Jeff Cooper quotes.

Time will tell I suppose whether any criminal charge appears but I certainly agree they are taking an awful long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree, I would be really surprised if any criminal charges come from this. Many of us don’t like Baldwin and many of us are not familiar with how it actually works on a movie set where the pistol is intentionally pointed at the camera for some special effect.
Whaaaaa? So then the FFL who sold Ramos an AR15 and ammo should be held liable?

NO.

What is with this garbage?

The person who holds the deadly weapon, has the responsibility to consider the safety of it. In those unique circumstances, AB had Duty of Care, it was on him, the last holder, to make sure what he got is safe. These safety rules, in a movie set or at kitchen table with the kids, has never changed.
 
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I don’t understand your comment. I think we’re on the same side. The FFL should not have any liability if a sale was within the law. Certainly there was a duty of care by Baldwin, the gun wrangler, safety folks etc.

Maybe we will eventually learn details enough to make informed decisions. Of course, that assumes the news will tell us the truth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don’t understand your comment. I think we’re on the same side. The FFL should not have any liability if a sale was within the law. Certainly there was a duty of care by Baldwin, the gun wrangler, safety folks etc.

Maybe we will eventually learn details enough to make informed decisions. Of course, that assumes the news will tell us the truth.
You agreed to the other comment (quoted here). Why would you agree to that? AB was last man in the CoC, it's on him criminally and civilly. Civil sue the others too for failing protocols.

"The handgun provider and movie company are the ones that should pay . Hand a functional handgun to a idiot thats not a gun guy and chit can , will and does happen all the time . The handgun was not safety checked and passed along to a alex by some one other than the firearm people "
 
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You agreed to the other comment (quoted here). Why would you agree to that? AB was last man in the CoC, it's on him criminally and civilly. Civil sue the others too for failing protocols.

"The handgun provider and movie company are the ones that should pay . Hand a functional handgun to a idiot thats not a gun guy and chit can , will and does happen all the time . The handgun was not safety checked and passed along to a alex by some one other than the firearm people "
Thanks for clarifying. I agreed because I think that’s a correct statement. I don’t know intricate details but I do know somebody in the movie business who tells me that actors rely on safety people/gun wranglers commonly. They suggested if every actor had an obligation to check every weapon every time we would still be making the original John Wick movie. That made some sense to me.

I guess the debate is whether the basic safety rules apply to actors during filming when they have a safety specialist like we don’t when handling firearms. I can see both sides of the debate clearly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
@Shark1007 - it simply cannot be. That would pave way for any actor to just kill people, and then say, "I dunno, they handed it to me that way, not my fault". JS explains on everything he has ever done with a gun, he always had to verify the state of the firearm after being told what the state of the firearm was. Same procedure at an LGS, sales guy clears it, hands it to you, you should still check it...... not everyone does though.

AB is guilty on crim side (criminal negligence), and will have to pay out. The others in that CoC will have to pay out. Has to be kinda simple. Did their safety protocols call out "actor must verify......." ?

If you are hunting and your shot misses and flies over a hill and into a house, hits a lady and kills her. What is that? It's an accident with criminal negligence. No different for AB, an accident happened, but it's criminal negligence.

Not sure if it was ever covered. Was the fired round a COTS type, or was it a reload? If AB was expecting just a "click" in a test scene, and it went !BANG!, he would have hurt his hand.
 

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Many of you guys are going to whine about this till the cow jumps over the moon or What !! Nothing done here will make a lick of difference . Watch and read about the movie shooting but move on . This topic has been debated in a number of treads on a number of forums and nothing has made any difference .
 

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One of the reasons why I'm not really into most action flicks is because many of the actors who play badasses actually know next to nothing about guns, let alone fighting. Yes I know they're just actors, but when they don't even know how to safety-check a firearm and rely on the propmaster to do it for them it reminds me of someone needing somebody else to cut their steak for them. Alec Baldwin has been around guns his entire movie career, and if he should understand proper gun safety protocols by now. So while I might give some young Chinese actress who's never held a real gun in her life a pass, I certainly won't give one to Baldwin.
 

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Holding a guy who makes a living pretending to be someone else liable for the mistake of a person who’s only function is to hand off a safe gun is like holding the lady who got killed liable because she told Baldwin to point and shoot just off center of the camera angle.
 

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Many of you guys are going to whine about this till the cow jumps over the moon or What !! Nothing done here will make a lick of difference . Watch and read about the movie shooting but move on . This topic has been debated in a number of treads on a number of forums and nothing has made any difference .
Nobody is whining here hardluk. Not sure what other forums you frequent, but we are all adults here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Holding a guy who makes a living pretending to be someone else liable for the mistake of a person who’s only function is to hand off a safe gun is like holding the lady who got killed liable because she told Baldwin to point and shoot just off center of the camera angle.
The criminal act was firing it loaded and killing someone. The rest is all civil penalties.
Actors are not exempt or indemnified, they are part of the CoC in the safety protocols. We know there were failures in CoC from start to end, but the end is where the crime takes place.

When you are handed a pistol, you check it,......... the re-check is actually a matter of trust within realm of safety. I don't trust you when you said "it's all cleared", so I check it myself. That's the basic safety protocol in CoC for firearms.

In AB case, it's even worse. They all knew the test scene was gonna be AB pointing the gun at the camera, with people behind the camera. That alone should have kicked off dbl/triple gun checks, with AB being the last person in that CoC, the person who would be aiming it right at the camera.

And like others mention, no charges filed in NM yet. That's just crazy. It's so obvious makes the blood boil.
 
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