[ShootinSpirit]

for those of us with gun shy girls, or friends who want a defensive tool but lack the training, you may consider getting a LE duty sized or OC/CS spray. One of these bad boys can easily fog a doorway or hall, and a good brand can debilitate a home intruder. Some companies even offer wall mounts.

I'm considering ordering a unit from fox for a friend who lives in D.C. (where handguns are prohibited) I think its better than getting them a shotgun that they may never practice with. Opinions?

 

[Powderman]

OC is well and good, as long as you remember the following:

1. OC affects different people in different ways. Last time I was sprayed, (in the Academy) I could still see well enough to beat my opponent vigourously with a foam rubber stick for a full minute. At no time did I lose my vision.

2. I've sprayed people that were fully conscious, under no influence of drugs or alcohol, that did not react in under 30 seconds.

3. What you spray can and will spray you. Spray only incapacitates; it does not stop. Using OC inside a house WILL affect you, and probably will not stop an attacker immediately.

Tell your friends to concentrate on their perimeter security--sturdy solid core doors, with 1" throw deadbolts. Secure windows with locks. Motion detectors and sensors outside the home. A spare phone inside the bedroom, and a cell phone to cary with you if you have to leave the area. Consider making a safe room--a bed or bathroom--with the same type of door as the outer door--solid core with deadbolt. Keep the OC as a last resort.

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"Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size;

When trouble rises, call on me and I will equalize."

 

[Ugly-Jeep-Truck]

If you want guaranteed protection..and not in the form of a gun....get yourself a German Sheperd...nuff said

 

[GLV]

OC is about 80 to 85 % effective on other than EDPs.

Application and conditions determine the effectiveness. No glasses and eyes open for droplet stream, or foam will be quite effective. Fog, does not seem to be as effective, with most students able to fight thru this type application.

Last, reaction has a lot to do with mindset. People that have been sprayed know what to expect--that the reason we spray students--so they can understand the effects. Practice with dummy [no OC] same sized canisters is necessary. Forget the mart-mart specials and get 4 or 8 oz canisters. GLV

 

[danc676]

Does anyone know a good vendor for foam oc/cs?

 

[ACP]

www.selfdefenseproducts.com. Get the Fox Labs spray.

 

[LAK]

I carried "Mace" while in the AF for nearly 5 years and never chanced to use it after being told by enough people that it was unreliable. Even the newer cocktails are not something I would rely on. Better a good impact weapon; an ASP or some other very strong piece of gear. Or, seeing as we are probably talking about circumstances involving deadly force - the good old machete. A 12" - 18" machete is about the most effect close-up weapon around in my opinion. That or a Fireman's axe/tool.

 

[Mus]

I'd take a tomahawk for for mellee combat too. i was hit by pepper spray one time. it didnt do anything to me. my mouth and nose burned a little bit my eyes watered a bit, but mostly just an annoyance.

 

[jpwright]

I recommend Lew "Six Days" Carlucci as an alternative home defense system. He got his nickname because he can guarantee an intruder six days in the hospital, minimum. He doesn't eat much and will sleep on the couch.

(Okay. Start flaming me for dissing Italian-Americans. I couldn't resist, though. And if my name was Mario Puzzo, you wouldn't say a word.)

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?

 

[shooter452]

Originally posted by ShootinSpirit:
for those of us with gun shy girls, or friends who want a defensive tool but lack the training, you may consider getting a LE duty sized or OC/CS spray. One of these bad boys can easily fog a doorway or hall, and a good brand can debilitate a home intruder. Some companies even offer wall mounts.

I'm considering ordering a unit from fox for a friend who lives in D.C. (where handguns are prohibited) I think its better than getting them a shotgun that they may never practice with. Opinions?

1...Train her right or get a new one! Who wants a girlfriend who doesn't like guns?

2...Tell your friends to get some gonads and take a little responsibility for their own defense. The alternative is a hermit-like existence behing locked doors. What's wrong with expecting someone to take enough interest in their own survival to actually train with a shotgun? If all else fails, see #1. Who wants a friend who doesn't shoot.

See, life is quite simple when you think about it.

 

[Soujurn]

Originally posted by LAK:
I carried "Mace" while in the AF for nearly 5 years and never chanced to use it after being told by enough people that it was unreliable. Even the newer cocktails are not something I would rely on. Better a good impact weapon; an ASP or some other very strong piece of gear. Or, seeing as we are probably talking about circumstances involving deadly force - the good old machete. A 12" - 18" machete is about the most effect close-up weapon around in my opinion. That or a Fireman's axe/tool.

The problem with any weapon that you have to be within arms reach to use, is that your opponent may disarm you. Not good.
Better, is to take a tactical shotgun course; along with your significant other.
Pepper spray is better than nothing.
It may at least, give you enough time to escape or get to your gun.

 

[LAK]

Soujurn,

The trouble with sprays is that they are unreliable. Period. An impact weapon like ASP is very reliable indeed - as is a 12-18" machete.

I agree that a 12-gauge (or 20/16-gauge) shotgun would be much preferable, if not essential. But the initial post was preposing sprays as an alternative to a firearm. If a firearm was out of the question altogether for any reason, I would take an impact weapon or machete. For that matter; up-close-and-very-personal, I would be as confident with a machete or BIG knife as any 9mm-.45 cal. handgun.

 

[Emily W Trott]

Originally posted by LAK:
An impact weapon like ASP is very reliable indeed - as is a 12-18" machete.

I would be as confident with a machete or BIG knife as any 9mm-.45 cal. handgun.

Another benefit to the machete is that it will provide some additional intimidation of the intruder. Presenting the weapon, along with some unintelligible screaming, should convince your adversary that you are a little off balance mentally and possibly crazy. I call this the "nut factor" of a weapon. Stay safe, Gary

 

[Jager]

Someone who will not use a firearm for self defense is highly unlikely to take the fight to their opponent with a knife, club or any other handheld device.

I am in agreement with all who said the various sprays were unreliable/undependable when it comes to fending off an attacker.

I am also in agreement with UJT. Get a trained dog if they are prohibited firearm use for self-defense.

If they are unwilling to defend themselves at all, then don't disrespect the dog.

 

[python1340]

I wholeheartedly recommend the M-26 Taser. http://www.taser.com/ . These new Taser guns kind of look like Glocks. They are a whole new animal from the old stun guns.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

I would rather teach the person to use a firearm than a nonlethal device. My reasoning behind this is the fact that you would have to get close to the attacker risking yourself to any danger poser by the attack, while trying to incapacitate then with "lysol"

A girl that I know, had mace and used it on her attacker yielding a 3 inch blade. It worked as it supposed to, irritated the attacked. She was subsequently stabbed 34 times and survived. I would rather have a .45 in that situation (but in her case a Walther PPK or something in that size would do.

Kenneth Lew

[This message has been edited by Kenneth Lew (edited 11-17-2001).]

 

[Mus]

34 times! yikes!

 

[LAK]

Certainly anyone without the mindset to fight effectively is going to lose what ever the case; and any weapon is not going to significantly increase their chances in this regard.

 

[Electric_Armadillo]

Originally posted by Mus:
34 times! yikes!

Obviously the attacker had no training whatsoever with a knife. I bet all the stabs were to the stomach area too. She was very lucky. Had she fought someone with the least clue as to what a knife is and what its for, she wouldn't be here.

I'd prefer that my survival not to rely on the incompetance of my attacker.

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-Electric Armadillo-
"You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." - Yasir Arrafat (On going to war over religion)

 

[Danomite 45]

Dear sir,
a breif talk with anyone in the LE profession who has been around the "sprays" will tell you they don't work. Period.
why would you use them?
Sam Colt made us equal, Remember?
all fall to hardball.
Daniel

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1 peter 5:8