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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know the subject has been covered several times on the forum, but did you see Charles Petty's article in the current American Rifleman re: handloads for self-defense use?
 

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one of them things that won't die,have never seen or heard of some scummy lawyer digging somebodies hand load out of some childmolster crack head,to use against the victim.have heard of "I know a guy ,who knows a cop's son who said" jwr
 

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I read the AR article, and I introduced a discussion somewhere here on the very topic.

I get the impression that there is little concrete information available. On the other hand, I have no doubt that a plaintiff's attorney would use your ammo choice - be it handloads or factory ammo - if he/she thought it would help sell the idea that you used unreasonable force on his client. For that reason, I don't use anything that doesn't say words like "self defense" right on the box or in the ads. I may be reloading, but I'm using recommended loads behind a bullet that a major manufacturer told me were good for self defense.

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?
 

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I do not handload (no time, or space to set up a place to fully relax and concentrate on such a project at the moment), but I do not let this nonsense influence my choice of ammo.

My top priority is to make very very sure that should I find myself in such a position, that I can convince a Jury without any doubt, that i believed my life (or someone else's) was in peril, or I was under the imminent, capable (with intent), threat of serious bodily harm. If I can convince a Jury, beyond even reasonable doubt; the question of "what ammo was loaded and fired during the incident" will not matter. If I could not, then I wouldn't shoot.

Thus, I believe it is knowing the criteria, understanding it fully, for the circumstances under which you can use deadly force are more important than anything else. Then it is a matter of tactics, and *gunhandling*. An accidental shooting, in circumstances where you were not justified in the use of deadly force, is the thing to really avoid.

For anyone handloading, if they are really concerned, I would be inclined to handload strictly for the cost factor. Obviously you will use a reliably functioning and accurate load in your gun. You will then, if needed, be able to truthfully state;

"I handload, because it allows me to practice more often - because of costs, thus maintaining a higher standard of proficiency. I chose the particular load (keep records of all the loads, their performance etc) because it was the most reliable (or simply "it was reliable in..."), accurate, in my particular pistol".

Be prepared to show the costs of a variety of average factory loads vs. your handload, and the number of extra rounds you are able to practice with as a result of the handloading.

... then *good luck* in the civil case against you after you are no-billed or cleared later by a Jury


[This message has been edited by LAK (edited 09-05-2001).]
 

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I think if there was any kind of threat towards your life the jury would find you innoccent, has anyone followed any of the police shootings It seems that the police get off.
 

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Greg,

Even a peace officer can be the target of a civil suit even if no criminal charges stick. The problem is, some people likely to indict you, on a jury, or that might name you in a civil suit, have this idea that if you are not a peace officer you are not under the same "rules" in using deadly force. This is pure bs of course - the legal (not to mention moral) criteria for the use of deadly force for personal defense or protecting others are the same.

The political climate - or rather the influencing of it, has led to perhaps more efforts through the court system to "discourage" people defending themselves. But as many cases against peace officers using unjustified deadly force (some media highlighted) demonstrate, the political/social influences have affected them too.
 

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I've never been particularly concerned about what a criminal jury might say about my ammo, since I don't plan to shoot anyone unless the situation is clear-cut.

What people who write such things as the AR article worry about are the civil trials that sometimes follow. And that does worry me, because the question is no longer defined by statute but by whatever emotional baggage the plaintiff's attorney can manage to drag in.

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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?
 

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I was watching the law suit on court tv where the Husband who was deaf was on crack and was harrasing his family and threatened them with a Knife so the wife calls the cops, cops shoot him and then they all start complaining that he wouldn't do anything and all that BS it makes me sick that cop should get a promotion.
 

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Greg,

During my training (and this was in the military police sector) instructors covered this subject very well.... That in all situations remember that just because someone doesn't respond to your "commands" to drop a weapon, "stop" etc, do not ASSUME that it is because they do not wish to comply. They may be deaf, as in the case you mentioned; or it may be as simple as they do not speak english. Another reason why peace officers need to make sure they seek the answers to certain questions beforehand. Of course it may not always be possible to do this.
 
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