In this months Shooting Times I noticed in the grocery store, there was mention of the new 45 GAP. I think just by skimming the article it was partially developed for Glock (Glock Auto Pistol ?) Without having a chance to really read the article it seems to be a shorter round than the 45 Auto, similar in length to 9mm. Supposedly it still has comparable velocity, etc. of the 45 Auto in a shorter platform.
Anybody seen or heard of the 45 GAP ?
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I own a box of .45 GAP, and based on that alone I will NEVER own a Glock 37, the gun it was developed for.
Anyway, all of your observations are correct. It was developed at Glock's whim solely for the new 37. The general idea was to give PDs that wanted .45 ACP stopping power the opportunity to go big bore without the huge grip of the 21 or having to buy new duty rigs, since the 37 was meant to be the same exact size as the 17 and 22. As it turns out, Glock had issues with the 17-size slide, and that is no longer going to happen.
The .45 Glock Automatic Pistol (I wish they'd mixed up the order to AGP; it's more stylish IMO) is quite literally 9mm sized; it is 11.23x19mm. It's short length precludes use of 230 grain bullets, crippling the round IMO. It's 200 and 185 grain loads are comparble, and the advertised pressure increase is modest, a .45 GAP runs two or three thousand PSI higher than a +P .45 ACP. This may sound like a lot, but remember .45 ACP is a modest pressure round to begin with. I'll believe it the precise moment I see one come out of a pressure gun.
I predict complete and dismal failure of this cartridge; as badly as we need a new service handgun cartridge, if only for the sake of variety, thr .45 GAP fills no perceptible niche. Anyone happy with.45 GAP would be just as happy with .40; anyone who really wants a .45 will settle for nothing less than Automatic... Colt... Pistol. And the 37 being forced to go big slide kills that cop market. R.I.P.
Just for the record, those service pistol cartridges I said we desperately need? We actually already HAVE them... they're the 10mm Norma and the 9x23mm Winchester... but they're hanging on to life by a bare thread, a thread constantly attended to by a group of devout enthusiasts, all of whom have my best wishes and support, because we need these cartridges and we need them in the mainstream where we can get reasonably priced factory ammo loaded with premium bullets and well built, properly timed factory guns.
Anyway, all of your observations are correct. It was developed at Glock's whim solely for the new 37. The general idea was to give PDs that wanted .45 ACP stopping power the opportunity to go big bore without the huge grip of the 21 or having to buy new duty rigs, since the 37 was meant to be the same exact size as the 17 and 22. As it turns out, Glock had issues with the 17-size slide, and that is no longer going to happen.
The .45 Glock Automatic Pistol (I wish they'd mixed up the order to AGP; it's more stylish IMO) is quite literally 9mm sized; it is 11.23x19mm. It's short length precludes use of 230 grain bullets, crippling the round IMO. It's 200 and 185 grain loads are comparble, and the advertised pressure increase is modest, a .45 GAP runs two or three thousand PSI higher than a +P .45 ACP. This may sound like a lot, but remember .45 ACP is a modest pressure round to begin with. I'll believe it the precise moment I see one come out of a pressure gun.
I predict complete and dismal failure of this cartridge; as badly as we need a new service handgun cartridge, if only for the sake of variety, thr .45 GAP fills no perceptible niche. Anyone happy with.45 GAP would be just as happy with .40; anyone who really wants a .45 will settle for nothing less than Automatic... Colt... Pistol. And the 37 being forced to go big slide kills that cop market. R.I.P.
Just for the record, those service pistol cartridges I said we desperately need? We actually already HAVE them... they're the 10mm Norma and the 9x23mm Winchester... but they're hanging on to life by a bare thread, a thread constantly attended to by a group of devout enthusiasts, all of whom have my best wishes and support, because we need these cartridges and we need them in the mainstream where we can get reasonably priced factory ammo loaded with premium bullets and well built, properly timed factory guns.
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I've heard that H&K is responding in kind with their new USP in .45 Hilfinger
This cartridge may be yet another flop. It fills no real niche market not already being catered to by the .40 S&W or .357 SIG.
It is not boastful to predict that it will probably be gone as fast as you can you say, ".41 Action Express".
This cartridge may be yet another flop. It fills no real niche market not already being catered to by the .40 S&W or .357 SIG.
It is not boastful to predict that it will probably be gone as fast as you can you say, ".41 Action Express".
Glock does'nt make too many mistakes. I wont commit to pronouncing the GAP dead until we see how it is marketed. Glock already owns a big chunk of the police market and either way that is unlikely to change. Typically, shooters are'nt making tha call on department selection in the end. City managers, budget offices, and chiefs already know the Glock name and for a large part will not have the technical knowledge to predict problems.
What'll make or break the cartridge are the ammo companies. Glock could and probably has partnered up with an ammo company to develop the round. They could literally give the guns away and make up their money on the back end through ammo sales.
Their is no doubt in my mind that the GAP was motivated by the desire for a proprietary cartridge, but Gaston Glock is smart and wily and willing to gamble and take risks. The .40S&W and .357SIG took a while to spool up, and a fair number of people predicted they'd never make it either.
What'll make or break the cartridge are the ammo companies. Glock could and probably has partnered up with an ammo company to develop the round. They could literally give the guns away and make up their money on the back end through ammo sales.
Their is no doubt in my mind that the GAP was motivated by the desire for a proprietary cartridge, but Gaston Glock is smart and wily and willing to gamble and take risks. The .40S&W and .357SIG took a while to spool up, and a fair number of people predicted they'd never make it either.
Well, that's a positive point, anyway. They were saying before the release that 230s weren't going to be possible.
.40 S&W stole the place .41 AE deserved... even if the funky rebated rim did cause problems, as I've heard, that was probably mostly in nines taking advantage of the switch-calibre gimmick; regardless, take away the rebated rim and you're still left with a stronger case then .40 with a better tolerance for hot loads and heavy bullets.
TRB
.40 S&W stole the place .41 AE deserved... even if the funky rebated rim did cause problems, as I've heard, that was probably mostly in nines taking advantage of the switch-calibre gimmick; regardless, take away the rebated rim and you're still left with a stronger case then .40 with a better tolerance for hot loads and heavy bullets.
TRB
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I happen to like Glocks and their engineering features, but I'll venture to predict mediocre sales and use of the .45GAP cartridge and gun, no matter how it's marketed.
Obviously nobody but Glock is going to make any actual pistols for the cartridge, and while the .40 S&W and 357Sig are chambered in pistols made by S&W, Sig, Glock and several other gunmakers, I'll bet the new .45 Glock Automatic Pistol cartridge is doomed to be chambered only in pistols made under the auspices of its namesake.
Since it serves no real purpose not already adequately addressed by other already-available cartridges and guns, I'm afraid it's truly superfluous, and therefore perhaps the first really glaring marketing blunder made by Gaston Glock.
Obviously nobody but Glock is going to make any actual pistols for the cartridge, and while the .40 S&W and 357Sig are chambered in pistols made by S&W, Sig, Glock and several other gunmakers, I'll bet the new .45 Glock Automatic Pistol cartridge is doomed to be chambered only in pistols made under the auspices of its namesake.
Since it serves no real purpose not already adequately addressed by other already-available cartridges and guns, I'm afraid it's truly superfluous, and therefore perhaps the first really glaring marketing blunder made by Gaston Glock.
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A great solution to another non-existant problem...Jeff Cooper.
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Having to make a new round to shoot out of your new pistol says something about your design.
I have shot a 45GAP, its pretty cool. Like its smaller brother the 17, it fits well. It has snappier recoil, but it is a larger bullet.
Downside is with the modified G21 slide the blaster will not fit into 17 leather/kydex. Works well in the Safariland 560 series.
Like it or not the cartridge works.
Downside is with the modified G21 slide the blaster will not fit into 17 leather/kydex. Works well in the Safariland 560 series.
Like it or not the cartridge works.
I would be very suprised if there were not .45 GAP protos tucked away at SIG, H&K and so on. They will want a piece of the action if is does take off. I'm sounding like a Glock apologist and I dont know why. I have no intention of going GAP, heck, I dont even have a .40 S&W yet, cause they may just be a fad.:biglaugh:
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The .40 S&W is here to stay since it fills the desire for a fairly big bore caliber in a high capacity meduim sized frame. The .45 GAP is aimed at exactly the same market, which is a self defeating philosophy. Here's an example of a company who is making a gun (G-37) that is in essence competing with its own well-established product (Glock22/23).
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.45 GAP will fall inot the abyss of failure since I doubt anyone will want to buy new brass for a .45 round that does less than the already established .45 ACP.
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