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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If so...what loading were you using and what was the range?
 

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Yup...Glock 21, MMC sights, Hornady 230gr JHP+P. One shot, left shoulder, 25yds or so. Deer fell over and died immediatly.
 

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Originally posted by shooter1201:
If so...what loading were you using and what was the range?
Let's see, off the top of my head...

1 with a Sierra 185 jhp loaded to 1250 (load from the L.E. Handgun Digest book)... the bullet disentegrated but it was a head shot and worked.

1 170 lb (field dressed) buck hit with a 230 ball from a Commander. It went down instantly due to the close leg being broken (it left a space of 4" where there was nothing but chunks of bone), bullet deformed, tumbled through the heart and hit the shoulder on the off side.

7 taken with 230 Hydrashoks but they were mostly deer put down after cars hit them. I recovred most of the bullets and they expanded to about .75" or better (a couple went through and were recovered from the ground - small deer). The few shot while hunting went down within 1 to 2 seconds.

1 with a 230 Black Talon at nearly 100 yards, went down quickly but not instantly.

1 Boar with a 230 Win. JHP loaded to 1040, went down right now!

1 198 lb Buck finished off with a .460 Rowland after he had both shoulders broken with a .260 Rem and was shot with a 9mm Triton Quick shok in an attempt to finish him off (didn't work).

I have shot several other deer or boar with other handguns (Super .38 to .44 Mag and .45 Win Mag.)... I can't tell the difference in caliber once they reach .40, (the difference is in bullet construction) and you can make do with the smaller ones if you have a well constructed bullet.

Hope this helps,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks! I plan on trying my Springfield 'Loaded' Gov't this fall, using Speer's 230 grain GoldDots at +P velocities.
 

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First deer I ever killed with a pistol went down with one shot, from a Glock 17 9mm loaded with Winchester Subsonic (OSM) 147gr JHP's. Range was about 20yds.
 

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JimH,

Were you able to measure penetration of any of those Hydra-Shoks? I asked this also in the "hardball?" thread.

Really interested in this. While any animal is not "human" in the exact sense, I think the penetration on any animal the size of a deer might be a good indicator.
 

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Originally posted by LAK:
JimH,

Were you able to measure penetration of any of those Hydra-Shoks? I asked this also in the "hardball?" thread.
I did not actually measure the penetration but most of them were recovered easily because they were balled up under the skin on the off side... most of these critters were does or small bucks hit by cars (obviously they were not dead or I would not have been shooting them.... well some folks may think I would
). I would hazard a guess that we are looking at 9 to 12" penetration. Bear in mind that the skin of a deer is fairly tough and "stretchy" and that it might have went through 3 or 4 more inches and stopped under the hide also.

As an aside, for comparison, I did measure the penetration on a deer and a little pig (a farmer asked me to put it down for as it was sick) with a 9X23. The penetration on the deer with a Winchester 125 JSP factory load was just under 10" and stopped under the skin. A handloaded Speer 124 Gold Dot (1550 fps) penetrated 9.5" in the pig, which was only about 75 pounds and was stopped by the offside leg bone which was not damaged.

Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Jim, have you noticed that the penetration in animals/humans seems to be about half as much as in ordinance gelatin?
Ordinance gelatin is very consistant, and fine for comparing rounds to each other, but pretty lousy for determining actual results in bodies. 12" of gelatin does not equal 12" in humans or animals. Hard to get that across to some people
.
The much denounced wet newsprint actually seems to be a pretty good testing medium, IMO.
 

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Thanks JimH,

Yeah, I would imagine deerhide would tend to catch 'em on broadsides. On a much smaller scale, I recall finding nicely mushroomed .22 CCI Stingers just under the skin on broadside rabbits from a pistol.
 

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Hello. Yes, took a Texas whitetail buck at about 20' with a Witness loaded with the "evil" Winchester Black Talon 230 gr JHP. The deer was quartering away from me so I put it in behind the rib cage angling foreward.
Recovered the nicely expanded bullet underneath the skin of the opposite shoulder.
The deer ran a few yards and fell over. Bleeding and wound channel were nothing special.

I'd estimate penetration at about 18 to 20".

Shot one broadside at about 50' with a Sierra 185 gr JHP loaded to 1050ft/sec muzzle velocity. The bullet expanded nicely and was found beneath the skin on the opposite side of the torso. No ribs had been hit. Just lungs and the top of the heart. The top of the heart was torn up badly. The deer just dropped, kicked, and then was still.

Estimated penetration was about 12".

Best.
 

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I haven't, but I spoke with Alex Hamilton (pistolsmith) in San Antonio while he was working on my gun. Before too much urban encroachment, he occasionally shot whitetail in his several acre back yard.

What prompted the discussion was whether certain brands of defense ammo are as good as claimed or if just ball would suffice. He had been successful with a variety of ammo, but he said he was especially impressed with Hydrashok 230 gr. ammo fired from a full-sized 1911 that he said did a considerably greater amount of tissue damage than others he had tried. He assumed that the deer hair and hide probably reacted something like clothes on a human and so he used Hydrashok as his defense round. I don't know if hair and hide equate that well or not, but I think if I were to hunt deer with a full-size .45, 230 gr Hydrashok seems to be an excellent round.
 

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I have taken numerous TX whitetail at 10-25 yards with hardball mainly from a 5" 1911. Remember, these deer are pretty small so not much is really needed to take one down.

We would go out to depredation hunts on our company's ranch after each deer season. When you do this a couple days a week for a few weeks, you start to shoot the simplest thing you can. We always carried 1911s, so there you are. Much simpler to use the 45 at your hip, than to lug around a rifle.
 
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