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Originally posted by clark.45:
I think the refrence is to JMB's design of the 1911

[This message has been edited by clark.45 (edited 09-07-2001).]
Yeah, but, that's the joke, JMB didn't design the 1911, the military specified changes. He may have designed the single swinging link, but the grip safety, hammer & other things that make the 1911 what we recognize, aren't his idea.
Same with the hi-power, the important, revolutionary part (the browning lock up system) was his, and is in quite a few guns. But, he didn't make it as a double stack with a hammer.
I believe he was quoted as saying hammer's were useless, but I have no quote reference...

Sad to say, if JMB were alive today, he'd probably have designed the Glock :)

So, SA doesn't build the gun like JMB wanted it, anymore than Colt does.
:)
 

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FLSi, as for the SOCOM and FBI contracts, the military wanted a DA .45 setup for silencer, etc - so what they got - an HK that should come with an artillery carriage, was designed by committee!

As for the Springfield FBI contract, PURCHASING the prestige of "winning" that contract cost Springfield a lot of money - the guns were essentially donated to the FBI for bragging rights. Colt couldn't really afford to make the donation at the time. Please note that there are darn few Springfield parts left in them - they are custom, handbuilt gunsmith guns, in no way remotely representitive of the average "gunshop" Springfield the average customer might ever buy. I helped a customer with a new SS Springfield last week - it was too tight to function properly and had an attrocious trigger. As for SA being true to the original design - no longer - the new firing pin mechanism (that is hoped to achieve what a Series 80 does, safety wise) is quite different. We'll see how it works.

Check the price (between $3-4000.00) if you want an FBI HRT contract duplicate. For that money ANYONE can build you a bangup, double down throw piece.

As for Colt's "ability to compete", it is indeed difficult to compete with Springfield's Brazilian 3rd world labor costs or Kimber's $3.00 molded hammers and sears, particularly while shouldering the burden of fighting off a couple of dozen anti-firearms industry lawsuits. The cost savings resulting have let both manufacturers spend a lot of money with the gun magazines - which buys a lot of "good ink", which drives sales, etc. Are either of them in court fighting for the right to build American citizens a gun?

But if you haven't handled and fired a current production Colt in the last year - you shouldn't be talking. I'll put a Colt up against anything out there for both out of the box and long term reliability. The current guns are better than your 1950's models - they are more accurate and shoot hollowpoints now.

As for John Moses Browning designing an ergonomic nightmare like the Glock - I don't think the best firearms designer to ever live would be that impressed with thin stamped sheetmetal lockwork and plastic. I know he wouldn't approve of the "cap gun trigger" and oversized grip. He understood design and proportion in an almost mystical way. Maybe we'll get to ask him some day. There is a good biography that covers his life - he's an interesting guy.

Warmly, always, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements"

[This message has been edited by Col. Colt (edited 09-08-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by FirearmsPlus.FL:
Yeah, but, that's the joke, JMB didn't design the 1911, the military specified changes. He may have designed the single swinging link, but the grip safety, hammer & other things that make the 1911 what we recognize, aren't his idea.
Same with the hi-power, the important, revolutionary part (the browning lock up system) was his, and is in quite a few guns. But, he didn't make it as a double stack with a hammer.
I believe he was quoted as saying hammer's were useless, but I have no quote reference...

Sad to say, if JMB were alive today, he'd probably have designed the Glock :)

So, SA doesn't build the gun like JMB wanted it, anymore than Colt does.
:)
. I stand corrected, I did notice when I was in your store the other day at least you had 1 Springfield in your case. A compact I believe! Lots of Glocks.


[This message has been edited by clark.45 (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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Yeah, we've got a few SA Ultra-Compact hi-caps left on closeout. We got a lot of almost everything else :)
I had a SA for a while, but they just don't sell well for us, same as Para-ordnance.
 

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Hade a 2000 Loaded that I had to beat the slide off of with a 2x4 when I field striped it for the first time. The back of the slide was pinched tight to give the appearance of a tightly fitted slide. It was obviously done after assembly because it gouged a shaving out of the slideway of the frame. I could have lived with that because it was an accurate gun but the front sight started shooting loose. No FTF's or FTE's but that was only a matter of time judging by the dings in the brass. Given the cost of either shipping the gun back to springfield or paying a local smith to fix things, I opted for trading it on a 1991A1 Commander. Florida's instant check computer was down today so I can't pick it up till tomorrow.
I'll post a range report when I wring it out.

Elrod

[This message has been edited by ElrodCod (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by Col. Colt:
The current guns are better than your 1950's models
You mean the Blueing is deep and beautyful? the rear of slide and frame and extractor are perfect, the sear and extractor and disconecetor and mag catch are made from forgings, steel main spring housings and triggers, and lest we forget the ser 80?

they are more accurate and shoot hollowpoints now.
Yes after years and years of buying guns that had to be worked on out of the box now colt's feed hollow points, 90 years of tradition unincumbered by progress
until lately


Warmly, always, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements"
or improvments as it were.

geo ><>
 
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