Are Baer's too tightly fitted?

6642 Views 44 Replies 32 Participants Last post by sprayboy, May 5, 2002

lchurch

Discussion Starter · Nov 28, 2001

As I've mentioned befor, I have a TRS with about 3000 rounds through it.

I've taken it to two of Walt Marshell's two day classes. For those of you woh don't know Walt, you go through lots of ammo (1300 rounds on one and 900 on the latest -- that's 450 to 650 rounds per day!). I have used PMC, Fiocchi, and Speer 230 grain Hardball.

Toward the end of the day, the cycling gets sluggish and I seem to get more practice with Failure to Feed drills. Toward the end of a 750 round day, I had to switch to my backup pistol to finish the day!

Is my Baer TRS too tight? I think yes.

larry

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

ElrodCod

· #2 · Nov 28, 2001

I think that they are too tightly fitted also. I have a 1994 built TargetMaster that was butter smooth right out of the box & that was with the 1 1/2" guarantee. The TRS that I recently bought required three Marines & a Seaman apprentice to rack the slide the first time. After 200 rounds I sent the sailor home. Makes you wonder what they did in '94 that they aren't doing now.

------------------
ElrodCod
NRA Life Member

A Johnston

· #3 · Nov 28, 2001

Yeah, the TR Special is TIGHT, real TIGHT. But too tight, I’m not sure. I can tell you this, your specific TR Special may be a bit too tight. I have two, one in blue and one in hard chrome, and although both felt the same before any rounds were put through them, at the same round count the blue gun was tighter than the hard chrome gun. I basically attributed this to the slide and frame being hand fitted, maybe yours was fitted too tight. Through my hard chrome TRS I have shot in excess of 800 rounds over a two-day period with out any cleaning and the gun never skipped a beat. However, it does seem odd that after 3000 total rounds the gun is still tight enough to cause malfunctions.

Citizen_Gilmore

· #4 · Nov 28, 2001

I will agree that my TRS is too tight in the lock-up.. I havn`t had any malfs, but when you can`t do a press check it`s too tight.. I was looking forward to it becoming possible to press check.. Is there no difference than when it was brand new?
-Gilmore

------------------
ME,WE!

oldcolt

· #5 · Nov 28, 2001

Tight, damn straight they are tight. I now have in excess of 3,000 rds through my PII and it is still very tight. Not to worry though as I would expect nothing less out of a Baer pistol. Despite the tightness, the darn thing will shoot anything I feed it. Besides I would be mighty ticked if I was the unlucky owner of a loosely fitted Baer pistol.

------------------

Citizen_Gilmore

· #6 · Nov 28, 2001

Originally posted by oldcolt:
Tight, damn straight they are tight. I now have in excess of 3,000 rds through my PII and it is still very tight. Not to worry though as I would expect nothing less out of a Baer pistol. Despite the tightness, the darn thing will shoot anything I feed it. Besides I would be mighty ticked if I was the unlucky owner of a loosely fitted Baer pistol.

OldColt, Are you able to do press checks now that your at over 3,000 rnds?

LW McVay

· #7 · Nov 28, 2001

Originally posted by lchurch:
Toward the end of the day, the cycling gets sluggish and I seem to get more practice with Failure to Feed drills. Toward the end of a 750 round day, I had to switch to my backup pistol to finish the day!

Larry, Did you try cleaning it during a break in action? Even if you didn't have time to thoroughly clean it, knock the big chunks off and lube it liberally. You shouldn't have any more trouble with it running sluggishly. I suspect you are seeing the difference between a custom 1911 and say, a uhhhh....Glock...

G

· #8 · Nov 29, 2001

My Premier II now has 633 shots through it and it's working great. The Baers are noticeably (understatement) tighter that Wilsons or Browns, but I don't think they are "too tight." I hope to buy another one next year.
Dennis D. Carter

Andy

· #9 · Nov 29, 2001

I'll third or fourth the sentiment that they (Baers) are fine. Baer chambers are tight, and fouling buildup will eventually affect feeding - especially if you are shooting lead reloads.

I had the same problem with my Wilson KZ-45 after 700+ rounds w/no cleaning. After shooting a bunch of various factory ball and JHP ammo (240 rds), I shot 50-rds. of 200-gr. LSWC reloads shootist87122 had given me to try out. Immediately afterwards, the slide failed to fully chamber the 1st round from the magazine; needing a slight nudge from the thumb. The gun functioned perfectly for the remaining rounds in the magazine. I tolerated this FTF routine for the three more magazines I had loaded, then swabbed out the gunk when I reloaded the mags. Functioning returned to normal (perfect.)

When doing these marathon training-cum-plinking fests, lock the slide open and clean the breech face, feed ramp, and chamber during a lull in the round count frenzy. All you need are a few patches soaked with Break Free and your little finger. Works for me.

"Shooting for practice means nothing. Perfect practice means everything."

See less See more

ybbeat

· #10 · Nov 29, 2001

Mine are bank vault tight and run like nobody's business! Too tight nah I don't think so.

martyu

· #11 · Dec 3, 2001

While at Thunder Ranch last year, I put 1600 rounds through mine in 4-1/2 days. Every night I'd remove the slide and barrel and wipe out the excess "crud' and then relube with Tetra Gun oil. Worked as smooth as I could have asked for.

Marty U.

D.A.Mike

· #12 · Dec 4, 2001

The tight fit seems to be one of the hallmarks of a Les Baer 1911. The slide-to-frame fit and bushing fit are about right, IMO, but the best I can tell, most of what accounts for the bank vault lock up (at least on mine) is the result of a long barrel link, which exerts excessive upward pressure on the barrel lugs when the slide is in full battery. If I had to guess, I'd say that this allows for an accurrate pistol without the extra expense incurred by hard fitting the barrel to the slide, which would add several hundred dollars in labor to the cost of the guns, as well as slow down production significantly. My TRS has proven to be very reliable despite the tight lock up, and ever hundred rounds or so seems to get just a little slicker in its operation. IMO, Baer is still the best thing going in an over-the-counter 1911.

craigz

· #13 · Dec 4, 2001

I typically shoot 200 rounds through one of my Baers during a range session, and run a boresnake up through the mag well and out the muzzle five times afterwards. I do a full cleaning every 1000 rounds or so and never have a malfunction.

oldcolt

· #14 · Dec 4, 2001

Citizen Gilmore,
Nope still can't do press check without maximum effort. Maybe in another 1,000 rds or so. Shoot Straight.

------------------

Peter Zahn

· #15 · Dec 9, 2001

D.A.Mike,

I don't know about your gun, but mine doesnt have a long link, and its as tight as a drum in the vertical lockup. It's locked up like a 1500.00 gun is supposed to be, from a well fitted barrel/slide and slide stop.
Had my gun been locked up vertically with a long link it would have gone back with a nasty letter. Long linking was a cheap easy way to get a temporary accuracy improvement, but it's pretty much bushleague pistolsmithing.
Slide to frame fit has not got a great deal to do with the user accuracy of the gun. Most of the usable accuracy of the gun is confined to the slide/barrel/bushing fit. Thats exactly where the semi-custom guys put their efforts, and hence, the price you pay.

Your right, a Baer is one of the best guns going. But I guarantee you that it wouldn't be if they locked it up with a long link. Now you just have another reason to be justifiably proud of your Baer.

By the way, it really doesnt take enormous amounts of time to fit the barrel using the slide stop. It just takes propper technique. I suspect since their setup for it, maybe 1.5 hours tops for this operation, probably less. Most all of the semi-custom guys are fitting their guns in the same manner, i.e, no long link.

------------------
If it flies it dies, If it runs it's done.

See less See more

alaska1993

· #16 · Dec 14, 2001

Tight, just like it should be

van45

· #17 · Dec 16, 2001

My TRS was tight for about 1500 rounds. I had 500 thru it when I went to Thunder Ranch for Handgun 2 and after another 1000 rounds, it really worked smooth. I had no malfunctions in the 2000 + rounds at the school. I cleaned every night as a dirty gun bothers me. The pistol shoots my duty rounds of Federal 230 Hydra Shock very accurately.

ranger

· #18 · Dec 20, 2001 (Edited)

Maybe...

It's the barrel lockup that I'm talking about, not the slide to frame fit. It's pretty darned tight.

It seems unnecessary. If it was really needed for accuracy, all the bullseye and IPSC guns would be built this way. Since Wilson, Brown, STI/SVI, Colt, Kimber, Rock River, Valtro don't build them this tight, it doesn't seem a prerequisite for accuracy. And if it isn't, what's the point?

At first, I could barely rack the slide of my new Premier II, the front cocking serrations are only decorative.

I changed the recoil spring to a Wolff 16.5# variable, and now it's MUCH much easier to rack the slide, but still the barrel lockup is tight. Looking at the lugs on the barrel, one can see how they form a longer "shelf" before they curve down.

I'll try changing the Mainspring next, I bet that will also make it easier to rack the slide. The springs on this thing are heavier than others use. It seems to contribute to the perception of "tight".

alaska1993

· #19 · Dec 20, 2001

As an old Army instructor used to say, "Suck it up, cupcake!"

Give that PII a few rounds to break in and it will be fine. Also, the first time I shot mine it was lubed with a thick white grease the previous owner applied. When I cleaned it, I removed the grease and applied a bit of gun oil on the rails. The thinner lube allowed the slide to move much more freely. Good luck with your PII, it is a fine gun.

abnranger

· #20 · Dec 20, 2001

I'm thinking lapping or valve grinding compound on the slide rails.
The TRS I have is IMOHO way too tight. You can't press check, do a blind chamber check; to me this is a problem.

With the pistol as tight as it is, it is no more or less accurate than othe 1911s in my stable. That includes a Novak, Cylinder & Slide, Wilson, Millennium Custom and a STI Custom build on the 5.1 SOCOM frame.

THere is no real need to have things this tight. I would even like the barrel to bushing fit loose enough to remove without a bushing wrench.

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.