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Finally got to the range last night and got to shoot ASYM's Barne's 185Gr. HP +P....What an excellent round!!!

Very little recoil (very little)....can't believe it's +P....Absolutley NO Flash....
Feeds Impeccably....

I've gotten other Barnes bullets and these are the best IMO...No crimping on the round, totally smooth throughout the whole body of the bullet....

I probably shouldn't post this because I'm sure there going to be out soon....and I only bought two cases :biglaugh:
 

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Finally got to the range last night and got to shoot ASYM's Barne's 185Gr. HP +P....What an excellent round!!!

Very little recoil (very little)....can't believe it's +P....Absolutley NO Flash....
Feeds Impeccably....

I've gotten other Barnes bullets and these are the best IMO...No crimping on the round, totally smooth throughout the whole body of the bullet....

I probably shouldn't post this because I'm sure there going to be out soon....and I only bought two cases :biglaugh:
Glad to hear you liked this stuff! It's one of the best loads available right now.
 

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I know this thread is slightly dated but I am looking at trying these. I've used 230 gr Hydra Shoks for years. I recently purchased a commander sized gun which prompted me to look for other possible self defense loads.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with 2 things about this ammo despite the rave reviews and I'm hoping the forum can dispell these unknowns for me.

1. Decreasing from 230 to 185 gr
2. The +P aspect of this round (never used +P and am unfamiliar with what it means)

Convince me! Thanks
 

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I know this thread is slightly dated but I am looking at trying these. I've used 230 gr Hydra Shoks for years. I recently purchased a commander sized gun which prompted me to look for other possible self defense loads.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with 2 things about this ammo despite the rave reviews and I'm hoping the forum can dispell these unknowns for me.

1. Decreasing from 230 to 185 gr
2. The +P aspect of this round (never used +P and am unfamiliar with what it means)

Convince me! Thanks
There's no need to convince you. Look at the available data:

1. The 185gr SCHP, loaded to between 1100 and 1200 FPS, consistently penetrates 16+" in every test as a minimum value. That is to say, in many cases it penetrates greater than this. Compare this to an average of 12-14" of penetration with a +P 230gr traditional hollowpoint.

2. The SCHP load has shown above 98% expansion rate through all media, save for steel (which crushes the hollowpoint cavity anyway).

3. In the Solid Defense X, and in every load out there, the pressures of the so-called +P are on the bottom end of what SAAMI considers +P. In Stan's SDX load, the load barely breaks through the barrier, providing only enough added pressure to get the load up to 1100-1150 FPS consistently. The recoil and pressure difference is minimal, comparative.

4. The solid copper loads have shown outstanding performance both in real-world use for Self Defense and in hunting applications, with a surprisingly high rate of consistency.

In short, this load is one of the best loads available. Not only is the bullet unique in the world of bullets in terms of performance, but it has an outstandingly consistent reputation.

I would not hesitate to use this load at all.
 

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Here's the results from a gel test study comparing Federal HST to the Barnes XPB bullet (Tests performed by Dr. Gary Roberts):

.45 ACP Corbon 185 gr +P Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1097 fps (1911); gel [email protected]
BG: pen=16.8" RD=0.65", RL=0.51", RW=185.3gr
4LD: pen=16.5", RD=0.66", RL=0.51", RW=185.9gr

.45 ACP Fed 230 gr +P HST JHP; ave vel=996 fps (1911)
BG: pen=12.2", RD=0.85", RL=0.41", RW=230.5gr
4LD: pen=14.6", RD=0.69", RL=0.46", RW=230.7gr

185 gr +P XPB vs. 230 gr +P HST--BG top/4LD bottom:


In gel testing, a couple of things to note:

1. The Barnes expansion is extremely consistent.

2. The Federal HST shows exceptional expansion in bare gel, but its expansion is reduced by 21% when 4-layer denim is introduced, with no change to the expanded diameter of the Barnes bullet.
 

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Delta, EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thank you! Do they make the same bullet in a 230 gr?


From what I understand I could use the added velocity in a 4.25 in gun correct?
 

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Delta, EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thank you! Do they make the same bullet in a 230 gr?


From what I understand I could use the added velocity in a 4.25 in gun correct?
No, they do not make it in 230gr. The reason being is that because it is solid copper and therefore less dense than lead, the bullet has to be made longer than the equivalent weight in a standard jacketed projectile.

To make a 230gr Solid Copper projectile, you would inevitably have a bullet too long to use in .45 ACP. The 200gr projectile, while it is possible to use in .45 ACP, is risky to load and get effective velocities out of without causing too much pressure that can damage the gun.

The 185 is truly the best option.

You won't see a huge reduction in velocity from a 4.25" gun over a 5", perhaps 75 FPS at most, and from the data I have on hand from Barnes directly, that would put you down in the 1030-1050 FPS range, yielding an average penetration of 14-15", and still quite consistent and effective performance.
 

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I like the Barnes bullet, but I'm not sold on its use for LEO's. The reason is that there is respected data out there showing that the Barnes bullet has problems flying in weird directions after it hits a barrier like auto glass.

With that said, it may become my main carry load, depending on cost. I like the HST a lot, though.
 

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I like the Barnes bullet, but I'm not sold on its use for LEO's. The reason is that there is respected data out there showing that the Barnes bullet has problems flying in weird directions after it hits a barrier like auto glass.

With that said, it may become my main carry load, depending on cost. I like the HST a lot, though.
Auto glass is the only barrier it shows any odd behavior, and that is a fairly infrequent occurrence. The HST bullet is good, no doubt, but I will take the Barnes any day of the week.
 

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Auto glass is the only barrier it shows any odd behavior, and that is a fairly infrequent occurrence. The HST bullet is good, no doubt, but I will take the Barnes any day of the week.
The Barnes bullet also has a tendency to skew in gel tests. That is a concern of mine. What if you aim for the heart but miss because of this?

Still like it overall, though. Not sure I'm comfortable with spending so much to test the round in my gun many times to guarentee it will feed when I need it.
 

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Not tried it yet but I just received two boxes of the 185 ASYM +P and the regular 230 ASYM xtp. Is there a difference in effectivenes as I would liketo try both. The 230 is less expensive though.
 

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The Barnes bullet also has a tendency to skew in gel tests. That is a concern of mine. What if you aim for the heart but miss because of this?

Still like it overall, though. Not sure I'm comfortable with spending so much to test the round in my gun many times to guarentee it will feed when I need it.
I have not noted any skewing in my own testing, but given the sheer number of variables in self defense situations, it would be the least of my worries.

That said, I have read no reports indicating such a critical miss when used in hunting or self defense.
 

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Not tried it yet but I just received two boxes of the 185 ASYM +P and the regular 230 ASYM xtp. Is there a difference in effectivenes as I would liketo try both. The 230 is less expensive though.
Yes, there is a farily big difference.

The xtp bullet, while under optimal circumstances penetrates well, has acouple of notable issues:

1. The round tends to clog and fail to expand when confronted by heavy clothing.
2. The round has a tendency to suffer core/jacket separations and fragment.
3. The round does not do well against intermediate hard barriers.

For hunting, the xtp bullet is a great choice. However, in the realm of self defense loads, many loads supercede it in terms of reliability and function, chief among them the barnes solid copper hollowpoint.
 

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I have not noted any skewing in my own testing, but given the sheer number of variables in self defense situations, it would be the least of my worries.

That said, I have read no reports indicating such a critical miss when used in hunting or self defense.
BTW... sorry no links before. I can find more after work, but the same source as the one who took the photos of the Barnes bullets next to the HST's discusses the problems with the Barnes bullets skewing:

Like the HST loads, the Barnes XPB bullets performed very well in both bare gel and 4 layer denim; the only area of concern was a propensity for the Barnes XPB bullets to have difficulties with auto windshield intermediate barriers. The Barnes bullets would frequently begin to yaw off course after only a few centimeters of travel in gel and would often veer to 90 degrees and exit the gel blocks in under 10 cm--this phenomena requires further study.
I'll try to link to some pictures in gel blocks. I bet that Barnes has fine-tuned the bullet.... may not be an issue anymore. I still think they're a great round.
 

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BTW... sorry no links before. I can find more after work, but the same source as the one who took the photos of the Barnes bullets next to the HST's discusses the problems with the Barnes bullets skewing:



I'll try to link to some pictures in gel blocks. I bet that Barnes has fine-tuned the bullet.... may not be an issue anymore. I still think they're a great round.
Yes, that was Doctor Roberts, I recall him writing about that early on, but i had not heard anything more about it, and had not seen the issue present in any of my tests, so I presume the issue has been resolved.
 

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3. In the Solid Defense X, and in every load out there, the pressures of the so-called +P are on the bottom end of what SAAMI considers +P. In Stan's SDX load, the load barely breaks through the barrier, providing only enough added pressure to get the load up to 1100-1150 FPS consistently. The recoil and pressure difference is minimal, comparative.
Unless I read it wrong Stan's web site lists the Velocity at 1020 fps. That is less than the Cor Bon round that is listed at 1075. I was looking for a round with the velocities you stated and I was only able to find it at Buffalo Bore as a round that they are working with Barnes to offer soon. His relatively low stated velocity is the only aspect of the SDX load that has kept me from trying it.
 

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Unless I read it wrong Stan's web site lists the Velocity at 1020 fps. That is less than the Cor Bon round that is listed at 1075. I was looking for a round with the velocities you stated and I was only able to find it at Buffalo Bore as a round that they are working with Barnes to offer soon. His relatively low stated velocity is the only aspect of the SDX load that has kept me from trying it.
The velocities I got on the chrono were around the 1100 range. You're right, though, Stan does appear to be loading at 1020, and Corbon at 1075 stated.

Average velocity from Doctor Roberts' studies (sing Corbon's loading) was around 1090, and my own pegged in right around 1100.
 

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I hesitate to post this but since hunting was brought into the conversation I will relate a hunting experience.I have used barns bullets for hunting deer for several years and this is my first negative experience.I shot a nice buck opening morning last year at about 50 yrds. using a Barnes 180 gr.in 30-06,the deer was broadside at a slight angle.I placed the shot behind the right shoulder,hit where I aimed and what should have been a double lung wound was not.The deer went down but got back up and I and other experienced trackers tried for several hours to track the deer after a 2 hr.wait.We didn't find the deer that day.2 days later I found the deer with a pack of dogs on it.I didn't do a full autopsy but did remove the head.Upon examination of the wound channel the bullet entered behind the right shoulder and came out of the left neck about 10 to 14 inches from where it would have had it not veered off path.The usual 3-4 in diameter exit wound was present which I have experienced with Barns X bullets in the past.I understand the difference in pistol and rifle bullets and the difference in deer and human anatomy and in no way am I agreeing or disagreeing with anyone that has posted and I understand this was one incident.This type of experiences is what makes it impossible to determine what is the perfect defensive round,too many variables.COLD.
 

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...This type of experiences is what makes it impossible to determine what is the perfect defensive round,too many variables.COLD.
I agree with you on this. kimber still sucks :biglaugh:

As i have stated before, what we have as determining factors for new bullets is comparative testing to the performance of old bullets in a homogenous media. We have a threshold based on thousands upon thousands of actual shooting incidents that give us, essentially, a go/no-go baseline, from which we can extrapolate a general idea of performance.

With that said, no bullet is perfect. I've seen shallow penetration from FMJ ball. I've seen a hollowpoint go right through. It happens. We can only do so much to predict.
 

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Thanks for the info DK. When the BB round comes out I'd be interested to know the chrono'd velocity of their round vs their stated velocity. I'd buy a chrono myself, but I'm afraid I would shoot it. :biglaugh:
 
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