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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, something I hoped never would happen, did last night. I was visiting my significant other for the weekend because she is attending Vet School and also there for the weekend was her roommates ex. They were supposed to talk and see if things could be worked out.

The pair started to argue; he was fairly inebriated and was the only one in the house drinking. The yelling and fussing back and forth went on for about an hour with myself and g/f trying to "listen without really listening" my concern was that it would turn physical, we heard a crash and her scream to get off of her come from her bedroom and I decided it was time to intervene. When I came through her door her had her pinned to the ground and arm drawn back to hit her.

I pushed him off of her and stepped between them. (to get the picture right, she is 5'7 100lbs+/- he is 6'3 240 or 250 and I’m about 6'1 210) I had my girlfriend call the police as soon as I went to intervene.

The roommate left the room and I stayed between him and her, hoping the police would be quick. Things went south when he made a move toward her and I blocked his path. Grappling with each other for a second, he shoved me up and onto a bar/island in the kitchen. I realized right then that there was no way I could physically stop him for very long so I made the few steps to my girlfriends room where my CCW was, I started carrying daily about a year ago.

When I returned a few seconds later I again got between them, maybe 3 steps away from him and closer to her. I had the gun at a "mid ready" position so I could see him well and still, if necessary, shoot quickly.

I had a mental line where if he crossed I felt I would have had no other choice, I didn’t like the way we were arranged in the kitchen very well because he was standing next to the knife block, but I didn’t exactly get to choose. Despite the hollering at me to "go ahead and shoot him" he was backing up towards the door and that was all I really wanted. I obviously didn’t want to shoot, but I damn sure would have. When he did finally go outside she started throwing his things in a bag and we left them on the porch, once he was outside I returned the gun to my room because I didn’t want to be standing there holding it when the police arrived. (Maybe he’s a really cool headed LEO, maybe he’s Barney Fife)

I was fairly confident once he was outside that he didn’t have a real weapon so I stayed at the door (outside) to be sure he wasn’t coming back inside to where the two girls were. The cops arrived shortly there after (20 minute! response time). Several officers showed up and he decided to take a swing at them, which didn’t work out well for him. He did spend the night in jail, we had his car towed and notified the Sheriff where it was towed to so he could get it back without coming to the house again.

One officer asked to see my gun, I obliged and we also walked through what happened in the kitchen. He said it sounded fine to him and that the ex could probably get me charged with brandishing, however he said he would be the first one to the courthouse to say it was bogus.

All in all it worked out as well as I could have hoped for a situation that bad, I definitely would have done some things differently if I had it to do over, but I don’t think I was in the wrong on anything.

The police were kind enough to take him to his car this AM and follow him up the interstate to the county line, so hopefully he is headed home and we wont hear from him again. If so, and I am not here, there is a shotgun in the closet awaiting him.

It seems like this board can be bad about blasting someone’s tactics and while I know mine were far from perfect, they were effective. So I welcome any suggestions.
 

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Not really gonna comment on what you did or didn't do... However I will tell you a few things I do that "might" have helped in this situation...

One... I always carry except when inside of my work building... I mean always... Had he come at you with a weapon of some sort before you retrieved your firearm it could have turned out badly... If you have a CCW then no reason not to carry all the time...

Two... I usually carry more than one weapon including a knife and some brass knuckles or my surefire with a cookie cutter on it... The knuckles can be replaced with a duck taped roll of quarters or something similar... In this case a good crack to the skull with one of those might have given him the proper attitude adjustment.

The reason I suggest an alternate weapon as such as I am not sure the situation warranted shooting or even drawing down on the guy as he posed no life or death threat and brandished no weapon, just a simple physical altercation..

Glad things worked out and everyone is ok... Your principle for intervention is the key and was the correct course of action and for that you should be commended... :)
 

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You did ok. Nobody got hurt and you are not in any trouble. So it ended well. You may want to consider options other than the gun. This would have been a perfect time for some pepper spray. Having some options other than the gun are always good to have. Just something to consider for future events similar to this. I have seen incidents similar to yours where having a gun escalated things and they went poorly. Situations like the one you were involved in are the reason I started carrying pepper spray.

Ron
 

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I commend you for intervening and protecting the other girl. Some folks would just stand by and do nothing until the police arrived. One of the first senses to be effected by alcohol is judgement. It seems that his judgement was not totally impaired because he did the smart thing and backed away from a potentially deadly situation. I believe some people are more afraid of an armed citizen than they are of the armed police. I think they believe that the cops can't shoot them. That may explain why this joker didn't try anything physical with you but selected to take a swing at the police. He just didn't feel lucky enough to try to attack you. Tell your friend not to let her guard down. Just because he left the area for now doesn't mean he will not return when he thinks nobody is around to intervene. Some of these abusive guys can be pretty determined. They fixate on the victim and go to great lengths to exert power and control over them.
 

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I also think if you carry you should always carry, But! in his defence I would also not be wearing it in the bed room but it would be beside me and I also wouldn't go out and confront a situation without it with me. I also like to use alternate means for things like this that could happen with an unarmed BG.

Just as another said about brass knuckles a knife, pepper spray, it is what you prefer to have and use. I like the mini 900,000 volt stun gun I started carrying. The 6' 3" 250 pound guy would have been crying for you to stop shocking him and you could have held him to the ground with a credit card size decence tool until the cops came 20 minutes later.

Here is the site if your interested in what it is.

http://www.beststungun.com/streetwise-mini-stun-gun.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
very much agreed

I certainly do agree with alot of what has been suggested here, I do also carry a knife but to my way of thinking that is still deadly force and so I see a knife as a second choice weapon. The thing that occured to me is that it would only have taken 2 seconds to pull on my boots, when I pushed him off of her the first time a well placed size 12 would have likely done wonders for his attitude.

A few things I would do differently, I could have had a surefire in my hand, it was next to the gun, would have been good for a slower escalation of things, a good pepper spray sounds like something I will pursue this week.

As for weather the situation warranted potentially shooting, how it would go in court I dont know, but I felt like I and the two women in the house were in serious danger, and I was in a position of having to defend 3 people against a larger person...Im glad it didnt come to that, but if it had, I would stand by my judgement.

THANKS for the input and suggestions, I guess things rarely go perfectly and thinking about what I did wrong may make things go better if (heavan forbid) there is ever a next time.
 

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No doubt brother...

I should have clarified concerning my knife statement... I definitely did not mean for you to go for a knife as I was simply listing what I usually carry.... I did intend for you to see I would have gone for the knuckles or the surefire with a cookie cutter on it...

Haha I must have missed the part about being in bed.... I also do not carry in that particular situation... ;) :biglaugh: .. I thought you guys were hanging out in the living room or something, so my fault...

If you felt the situation warranted the firearm then brother by all means get it... That fella was a hoss but so are you and I as we are about the same size.

I think the taser was a good idea and something I rarely suggest because I have never owned one, but it does seem like a practical tool to use in exactly this type of situation. I would not however suggest mace as I have had a couple bad experiences with it and unless you practice with it and are alert of the environment it can end up affecting everyone including the BG...

I am not LEO so my two experiences with mace are from college and highschool... Once in HS someone popped a can in the football locker room after practice and we all got a good healthy dose of the stuff... Started out as throat tickling and then all out coughing, snot, and tearing...

Second time was in college when I was bouncing and got jumped and a guy maced me before they proceeded to let me know how displeased they were at being invited to leave ;) :biglaugh: ... Fortunately everyone again got a good healthy dose, but I tend to not like mace very much as an alternative... I am sure it is effective if used properly and what not, I just never felt the need to go beyond the knucks and a firearm...
 

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The police said you could be charged with brandishing? I don't see how. You're on private property with permission so you should be able to open carry. And if you were in a situation where you had to defend youself (sounds like you were), it was ok to clear leather.

I've seen a lot of people (not just cops) talk big about this and that when they had no idea what they were talking about. Maybe this was like that. I don't know.

I'm very interested in the legal ramifications of that kind of thing though. I don't see how else you could've handled it.

BTW, what did he need to see your gun for? Did he give it back promptly?
 

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Well done...

....you did what was reasonable and it worked.

The guy could have cried "banishing" but at least in this state any officer who investigated would have laughed. Banishing is part of the Disorderly Conduct laws and has to be done in a public place. Start beating someone in their home...let see that is assault...told to leave and refused...that is Criminal Tresspass.....fear of serious bodily injury or death to yourself or another....that is a shootable offence here in NH.

If you don't know what the exact laws governing the use of deadly force in your state are do youself a favor and find out what they are...

Great job....I always preferred to win a gunfight...that is fighting with a gun...with no shots fired...saves ammo....and a lot of paperwork and money.

Bob
 

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Just as a adendum if you are going to carry pepper spray try to find at least a 5% concentration as anything less might just piss off a drunk. Also you should have some one shoot you with it in the face just to see if you can fight through it, I gaurentee that if you spray someone with it you are going to get some on yourself, Also the room will have it floating around airborne. You just want to incapacitate the perp not everyone else in the area. Also check the local regs in a lot of places carrying pepper spray is considered the same as a firearm. If you have any respiratory problems Asthma, emphasyma sp. or heart problems do not expose yourself to Pepper spray the results could be deadly. Cleanup is easy, non lotion soap and lots of water. The effects usually wear off in 10-45 min depending on the concentration. Also wash your hands several times before you go to the bathroom. Belive me I know this from personal experience:mummy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
brandishing...

The officer that was handling it...
there were 4 present including one canine officer..maybe because there were two--one very large- dogs present?
... just said the jerk could probably cause trouble that way, but that it would be a non starter because he would be happy to say he didnt think that was the case.

As for seeing the gun I think he just wanted to be sure it was not still "in play" he never even handled the gun, I just showed him where it was, back in my g/fs room still in Condition 1 the way it stays...and true or not it crossed my mind that it sure looked better to be showing him a somewhat expensive gun in a nice holster...than a HiPoint in a drawer. He also took my Drivers license and ran it. In VA that would show I was a CCH holder.

FWIW i was in the living room, so point well taken about carrying ALL the time, may be investing in a S&W snubby soon as a pocket gun for when I dont have the 1911 on.

Thanks again for all the feedback!
 

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Forester said:
The officer that was handling it...
there were 4 present including one canine officer..maybe because there were two--one very large- dogs present?
... just said the jerk could probably cause trouble that way, but that it would be a non starter because he would be happy to say he didnt think that was the case.

As for seeing the gun I think he just wanted to be sure it was not still "in play" he never even handled the gun, I just showed him where it was, back in my g/fs room still in Condition 1 the way it stays...and true or not it crossed my mind that it sure looked better to be showing him a somewhat expensive gun in a nice holster...than a HiPoint in a drawer. He also took my Drivers license and ran it. In VA that would show I was a CCH holder.

FWIW i was in the living room, so point well taken about carrying ALL the time, may be investing in a S&W snubby soon as a pocket gun for when I dont have the 1911 on.

Thanks again for all the feedback!
Cool. Sounds like the guy was fair about it. I get defensive about that kind of stuff because there seems to be a presumption in today's society that gun = bad guy. Hopefully things will turn back around, but we have to live in that for now.
 

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I think you did just fine. You might advise your girlfriend's roommate to file for a restraining order against her (hopefully ex)-boyfriend, and then advise her not to count on that keeping him away. I think it would be good from a legal perspective to have that restraining order on file, if deadly force is eventually needed on the guy (although it sounds as if there is already a good start on documentation of problems with this character).
 

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kjhof said:
I think you did just fine. You might advise your girlfriend's roommate to file for a restraining order against her (hopefully ex)-boyfriend, and then advise her not to count on that keeping him away. I think it would be good from a legal perspective to have that restraining order on file, if deadly force is eventually needed on the guy (although it sounds as if there is already a good start on documentation of problems with this character).
I'm not a lawyer--nor have I ever played one on TV--but my wife and I are dealing with her psycho ex over their two kids. Having an RO is an extremely good idea. Please note that it won't do much to deter the roommate's ex-boyfriend (some 80% of ROs are violated), but it will set up a foundation on which to build a legal case if need be, and it lends support to her future actions if she decides to take measures to protect herself. Also, it avoids the possibility of the court second-guessing her actions later (if something happens) by asking, "If you were so afraid of this guy, why didn't you get an RO?"

Meanwhile, she should NOT count on this guy leaving her alone. He may do fine when he's sober but then turn into a monster the next time he gets drunk. Also, if she refuses to get an RO, I'd be reluctant to get involved if she has another incident. I've met lots of folks who let themselves get caught up in a cycle of victimhood, often with the same abuser. You don't want to get caught in that mess.

As for lessons learned, you used what you had at hand. The law doesn't require that you buy pepper spray, batons, etc. Yes, those other weapons are good ideas, and I would definitely get one or two (I like the stun gun and Taser), because they give you more options. The only thing I'd do differently is to have some sort of weapon on hand the *first* time you went into the room, just in case the abuser tried to harm you.
 

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Ron In PA 2 said:
Alternative force options are good but be sure to check for legality in your area. In many areas items like brass knucks are considered prohibitited offensive weapons and while very effictive will cause legals problems. HTH

Ron
Big dog. Dobbie the house elf.
 

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drunk got lucky

Here, his assets would be at the jail on a battery charge with a
domestic violence tab on it.
As for the branishing, can say much about it. Thanks to two
gutless gov in Kansas, we dont have CCW.
 

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No second guessing your actions here, sounds to me like you did great. Seriously, the "good guys" remained unhurt, you immediately had your girlfriend call the police while you tried to intervene and buy some time until they arrived. Would I have done anything differently? Maybe but that doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, just that everyone sees things differently. In the end, as long as nobody got hurt I'd say you got it right. Good job!

Just out of curiosity: Did I understand correctly that as soon as he went outside you put up your weapon and stepped outside yourself? I understand not wanting to be standing there with a weapon when the police arrived but Brother, you've got guts ... think I'd wait until I heard them drive up before securing my weapon ('course I'm 5'-10", 170lbs .... 6'-3" and 240lbs looks a LOT bigger from down here! ;) ).

I'd never considered the possibility that having a relatively expensive weapon might portray a more favorable image than would a POS gun but it DOES make a certain amount of sense - not many gang bangers/street thugs walking around with Les Baers or Ed Browns in custom leather, huh? Of course, that's assuming the responding officer(s) are "into guns" enough to know the difference. BTW, what brand were you carrying? You never said.

No matter what anyone says about what you could'a or should'a done differently (myself included), YOU'RE the one who has to live with the aftermath - both legally and with regard to your conscience. Glad you were able to handle the situation and keep everyone safe. Again, you did good!
Mac
 
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