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Listening to the BBC on the way home tonight. It seems that Brazil has
a referendum in the next day or so on the banning of the sale of
guns and ammo.

It seems more people are killed in Brazil (32k last year) with firearms than
any other nation.

The stat I think I heard is there are an estimated 17 million "guns" in Brazil.

It seems that on average a person is killed with a gun every 15 minutes(BBC).

It seems to be fairly common place for the police to get into shoot-outs
with gangs of young criminals.

Over the past few weeks there are has been much debate about the proposed
ban. Initially polls showed that upwards of 70% were in favor of the ban.

But this week it seems that numbers have turned in favor of the pro-gun
groups. Currently polls show 45% are against the ban with 40% in favor.

The change in thinking is coming from mostly the middle-class and some lower
class citizens.

When first proposed, the emotional knee-jerk reaction was in favor of the
ban. But cooler heads are prevailing: If you take guns away from law
abiding citizens only criminals will have guns. The lower and middle classes
are now seeing that "THEY" will lose their guns and be defenseless against
armed criminals.

This should be good. If anyone sees the results please post 'em here.
Can't always catch the BBC and don't trust them to report a defeat.

Regards,
Greyson
 

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Hello,

CNN has a poll on it and I just posted the link in our poll section, Please Vote.

Well now the poll is Gone, Sorry About That.

Thanks,
Bob
 

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IF it is news BBC will annouce it. I have no idea other than the Brazillians why anyone would care. Their number of murders may go up, may go down or may stay the same. I have absolutely no desire to visit or live there no matter what the outcome. In fact I suspect it will go up if they ban guns and that will be good for us up here because it will another example of failed gun legislation to point to.

Stay Safe
 

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If they don't use guns, they'll just use something else... kinda wierd from a country that hosts some very well known firearms makers (Taurus, IMBEL).
 

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Can I get an Amen here people?

DEDON45 said:
If they don't use guns, they'll just use something else
We've actually seen this in our recent history. In the 1994 Genocide in Rwanda, some 800,000 people were butchers, not with guns (a very few were) but with machetes. Seems to me it would be difficult to erase a problem by denting one tool, people will switch to another.
 

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They voted it down, they want to keep their guns. There is hope.

Looks like 64% against and 36% for with 92% of the vote in. Now they need a good CCW law.
 

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Thank God... Yeah, I heard they wanted to ban baseball bats in the Netherlands (I think that's right, might've been some other Euro-pee-on country) because people started using those to commit crimes when the guns got banned or restricted.
 

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robertbank said:
IF it is news BBC will annouce it. I have no idea other than the Brazillians why anyone would care. Their number of murders may go up, may go down or may stay the same. I have absolutely no desire to visit or live there no matter what the outcome. In fact I suspect it will go up if they ban guns and that will be good for us up here because it will another example of failed gun legislation to point to.

Stay Safe
At first, I kind of saw it the same way, and was a bit annoyed that the NRA was spending resources in the campaign to fight the ban. After a bit more thought, though, I am more than a little glad this insanity was averted, and if some of my dues went into that effort, I can live with that. If the referendum had gone the other way, the Brady Bunch and the VPC would have been shouting from the rooftops that this was proof that most people want to free themselves from the "tyranny of guns"--that it's only America's sick "culture of violence" that thwarts efforts to implement "sensible gun control laws." That was worth preventing.

EDITED TO ADD: Just discovered here that apparently no NRA funds have been used in Brazil--the NRA just provided advice, and allowed the Brazilian pro-gun movement to translate NRA literature into Portuguese. The article quoted, by the way, Rebecca Peters claiming that a "yes" vote on the ban would have been a stepping stone for the global gun control movement.
 

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kjhof said:
that apparently no NRA funds have been used in Brazil--the NRA just provided advice, and allowed the Brazilian pro-gun movement to translate NRA literature into Portuguese. The article quoted, by the way, Rebecca Peters claiming that a "yes" vote on the ban would have been a stepping stone for the global gun control movement.
Here's one for the NRA, boys! :rock:

I would prefer to see all people having the right to bear arms. It makes me sick that there are people out there who have to be victims. My fiance spent a good amount of time in a South American country as a child (parents did missionary work) and she has told me stories that make my skin crawl.
 

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robertbank said:
I have no idea other than the Brazillians why anyone would care.
We need other countries that have gun rights. The US cant expect to remain free as an isolated island of liberty.

PS. Forgot to add: I also view this incident as a case of outside UN supported NGOs trying to force their international socialist agenda on Brazil and I hope it doesnt succeed.
 

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Mus

Never mind the UN. The OAS is just as bad. That and your own state department. If Bush and Co want to expand US manufacturing why all the export restrictions on recreational firearms and more particular parts. Amything over $100 now requires an export permit to Canada. Given most of our guns are American made it seem to me the only people the US State Dept. is hurting are US manufactureres. I understand this is an attempt to restrict the access to firearms to the public but I would have thought that would be a Canadian issue. Maybe they think recreational shooters up here are terrorists and being able to order Heinie night sights represents a significant threat. LOL

I think it is fair to say I don't fully understand how your government works but it seems the beauracracy and particular your State Depart and Commerce Depart. are a law on to itself.

Wish I could say it is better up here but it isn't I am afraid.

Don't worry about the US being an isolated island of Liberty. It isn't.

Have you read your Partriot Act recently? How that got passed is beyond me. Worse then our War Measures Act. At least the latter must be declared in Parliament and is not an ongoing working legal right of the government to use at will against it's people.

Stay Safe
 

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robertbank said:
Don't worry about the US being an isolated island of Liberty. It isn't.
Well if we allow UN supported NGOs to get guns banned in every other country it soon will be. Thats why I care.

robertbank said:
Have you read your Partriot Act recently?
Yes I have, and while a couple parts Im less than comfortable with, for the most part it contains none of the things people think it does.

Stop using the Patriot Act in an attempt to sidetrack the discussion.
 

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Mus

Well if it is any comfort there is no chance of that happening up here. Bill C 68 has been a dismal flop and an expensive one at that. What is happening up here is what is happening down there and that is back door restrictions. You may not think the $100 export rule is no big deal but when you consider there are over 10 million guns up here that represents a significant opportunity for your parts manufacturers and retailers like Brownells. The flip side to it is the Canadian Gov't applies the same restrictions as part of the OAS treaty restricting the movement of firearms between countries in the Americas. PITA as far as I am concerned. I doubt there are many American gun owners that are even aware that this nonsense is going on.

That is one reason why I am going to the trouble of getting a Form 6 to attend IDPA shoots in your state. The more we cross border the more reason to ease restrictions and the less likely our two governments will try to impose more restrictions. We fight the good fight every way we can.

Stay Safe
 

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seeker55 said:
Damnit. There goes my motivation to cut down on my coffee drinking. :)

Everyone here has mentioned the N.R.A.'s assistance to Brazilian gun owners. I'm a little sensitive right now to the possibility of developing the reputation of being opposed to G.O.A. so I hope that people will give at least equal attention to G.O.A. efforts in this cause.
 

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robertbank said:
You may not think the $100 export rule is no big deal but when you consider there are over 10 million guns up here that represents a significant opportunity for your parts manufacturers and retailers like Brownells.
Oh I forgot to address that. Yeah I do think thats a big deal, but imposing a burden through taxation is different than an outright ban as long as the cost can be born by the market.

If the taxation became prohibitive thats another story.

And I agree the taxation can only hurt parts manufacturers and end users. But hey I guess our socialist programs have to be paid for by somebody, just like yours.

I mean its not like bums and layabouts are going to start taking care of themselves. Big brother has to raise the funds somewhere, somehow.

robertbank said:
That is one reason why I am going to the trouble of getting a Form 6 to attend IDPA shoots in your state. The more we cross border the more reason to ease restrictions and the less likely our two governments will try to impose more restrictions. We fight the good fight every way we can.
That statement isnt consistent with your "why anyone would care" statement. I agree we do what we can, where we can. That includes supporting Brazilians rights to bear arms, and that includes requesting information from your government awhile back to increase the costs of one of your gun control programs (I believe that was C68). Millions of American gun owners participated in the effort to make an already expensive and useless pain in the ass bigger and better for your government.
 

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Mus

The $100 limit is placed on the amount of the order. In other words I cannot order $100 or more worth of gun parts from a US supllier without the supplier having to apply to your State Depart. for an export permit. Now we both kow spending $100 US on our pet 1911 is very easy to do. The restriction now is being applied to reloading supplies as well though the legislation I understand does not speak to reloading supplies.

What in fact happens is that companies like Brownells simply will not ship gun parts in excess of $100 to Canadians, to much hassel. Back door anti-gun legislation and it works. Who doe s it hurt? Well it is inconvenient and in some cases more expensive for me to acquire the gun parts I need or our gunsmiths need and for the US manufacturing industry a lost sale.

What really upsets me as I suspect Canadian Gov't actively supports the US move. G.D. Liberals. Wish you guys would finish off Iraq and invade us! LOL

Stay Safe
 
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