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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So what sights would you pick for a serious 1911 "Combat Weapon"?

Thanks for your imput.

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Fraternally yours

Jimmy Ward
Combat Tech
 

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My personal opinion...I like the Heinie Slant Pros the best. A lot of people seem to like the Novaks too. I have Heinie Slant Pros on 2 of my guns, and have seen Novaks, MMC, Trijicon, and a few others.
To me, the Heinie's have the cleanest sight picture, bar none. I think they look the coolest too
 

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I prefer the Heinie SlantPro's...though there's nothing wrong with the original Heinie sight either.

If a sight that fits the factory dovetail and requires no slide maching is preferred, the simple rounded unit from Robar is tops.

Rosco
 

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I'm an ass man too. (Get it? Heinie......ass........)
 

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Heinie use to have and give away, neon colored shirts that said,

"HEY! Want to see my Heinie".

Kinda fun, then Dick got respectable


Slant pros, no question. The Heinie/Novak thread will tell you why.
 

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Hi StreetSurvival, There are some rumors that Novak's are made out of cheap soft steel and Heinie's out of better steel, well I Rockwell tested them for hardness for you: I have 1 old Heinie front sight that has a small v on the bottom it checked at a RC-28, this sight was heat treated, the newer sights with a larger V on the bottom goes down to a RC-8 to 9, this is hard as non-heat treated frames, this is off the C-scale for heat treated steel ( C-scale stops at RC-24) For a more accurate measurment I must change the tester over to B scale, I don't think its nessesary. It's mild steel. The Heinie & Novak rear sights checked the same. The Novak front did hit a few points higher but this is a very small amount, moot point. I don't know what steel the Novak's are made out of but a good guess is 12L14 or 1117L, the L is for lead, a trace element of lead is added to the steel to make it free machining, I can tell by machining it when I profile and serrate them, most scope rings are made of 12L14, free machining steels are not "cheap" anyone that sez so is ignorant, they just don't know any better, a bar of it cost about 30% more than standard 1018, it is not softer than the same mild steel without the lead, it is made for special applications, it may give some people this illusion cuz it machines nice and easy, my sights are made from 1117L, I use it cuz it has a good shear strength, it is used on some electric motor shafts cuz it handles torque well. This is desirable on the top of a 1911. I made sight from heat treated tool steel and had one shear so I changed. As far as I can tell these sights are of equal hardness, I only know for sure what I can measure. If you would like a deeper rear notch this can easily be milled deeper, I use a stock Novak rear and .115 front with a small radius milled in the corners of blade base juction to eliminate the stress riser, this will strenthen the blade from shearing. I like the Novak for the sleek profiling and I have no problem with the sight picture, I like it. You will have look at both sights and take your pick, they are both nice sights. Hope this clears things up for you. Metalsmith

[This message has been edited by Metal Smith (edited 03-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Metal Smith (edited 03-12-2001).]
 

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Another vote for Heinie's.

Metal smith help me out here.
...this is off the C-scale for heat treated steel ( C-scale stops at RC-24) For a more accurate measurment I must change the tester over to B scale to do that....
I have always used Rockwell C (Rc) scale to refer to higher strength (harder) steels. My reference, Modern Steels and their properties, Bethlehem Steel, 7th Ed. lists Rockwell B (Rb) scale to 100, tensile strength of approx. 116 ksi, and Rockwell C scale to 55 for a tensile strength of 300 ksi. This reference lists Rb of 99 and a Rc of 23 with the same tensile strength of 116 ksi. My Rc scale starts at 20.

To all. Metal Smith is quite correct in stateing that the "L", as in 12L14, is for lead added to improve machinability. Please do not confuse this with the "L" in stainless steels, as in 304L. This means low carbon.

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John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
 

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AS anyone can see just look at the most copied sight ever. THE NOVAK. How else would you like to compare?

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Hi John Forsyth, Charts in these manuels are a little vague and maybe ment for guide lines, different steel with different element contents will yeild different tencile strenths at a given heat treat and raw state.
I think the reference to RB-99 to RC-23 is from a conversion chart, if you hit a RC-23 and converted to B-scale it may hit RB-99. Its tough to keep all these numbers in your head, I'd really have to check the manual to be sure. These steel numbers are vague and tough to keep straight also, different manufactures can throw you through a loop. Basicly the last 2 digits is the carbon content, you need at least 24 to start to heat treat, the first digit is the type, 1 being carbon steels, 3 being high nickel content steels, 4 like in 4140 (1911 slide steel) is chome moly, 40 being carbon content, carbon is a element that makes steel hard when heat treated, the higher the carbon content the harder the steel gets but it also rusts, .95 is about high as it goes, (as in 1095 spring steel popular with knife makers) elements like chomium make steel hard also with great corosion resistants but its tough to machine, the 1 may indicate free machining, its really best to check the machinist hand book or better yet the manufacture. I'm just going on memory now. Hope this helps you out. Metalsmith
 

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Personally I prefer the Novak. I have used both but my preference is the Novak design.

Notice the number of Novak knock-off out there now. Some made with the manufacturers permission and other pending patent infringement lawsuits.

I like the simplicity of the Novak. But that does not mean one is better than other sight of equal quality and design.

The Heinie is a great sight but not to my own taste.

Keep in mind personal taste drives most of the choice of sights.

Be safe

Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com
 

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Heinie: capable of racking the slide on your belt/ pants with one hand .
Novak's: can't, it's too smooth

Heinie: better, sharper sight picture.

I have 2 1911's one with each and I will be sending the slide with the Novak's to Heinie for replacement.

Just my opinion, after not being sure what I wanted I decided to check out both.
 

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Its all a matter of personal preference get what you like thats the great thing about this country freedom of choice .Novak's are the best grade as are hienie you cant go wrong with either.ocg1911
 

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Originally posted by tetley:
Metalsmith & John F, how exactly do you test for steel hardness?
I am going to give you the book answer. Ref., ASM Metals Reference Book, 2nd Ed., (ASM = American Society of Metals).

Hardness = Resistance of metal to plastic deformation, usually by indentation. The test for determining the hardness of a material is by forcing a hard steel or carbide ball of specified diameter into it with a specified force.

Knowing what test procedure you are using, Brinell, Rockwell, or Vickers, the size of the indentation made is measured, you refer back to a chart, and you can tell what the approx. strength of the material is.

There is a lot more to it than that, that's just the "Cliff Note" version.

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John

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away".
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995
 

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Novak bar dot, without a doubt!
 

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Actually hardness testing has come a bit further along than the ball test method.

Normal practise now is to use a diamond stylus tester. The diamond has a predetermined force exerted on it when it is in contact with the steel. When it hits this force, the machine "resets" like a torque wrench and the exact hardness is then read off a dial at the top of the machine. The dial is graduated in several different scales. Quite a bit more precise and no intermediate steps to get the number.

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If it flies it dies, If it runs it's done.
 
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