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Anyway you do it, you'll eventually pay for using hotter ammo in a P-35 with a shorter usable lifespan. I nonetheless wonder if a heavier mainspring and recoil (slide) spring wouldn't attenuate the "life shortening". I've been told that replacing the firing pin stop with one that has NOT been rounded won't help, but that makes no sense to me. Since I've never been able to obtain a flat bottomed firing pin stop, I guess it doesn't matter much.
I wish I was more of a machinist, sometimes...
 
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Anyway you do it, you'll eventually pay for using hotter ammo in a P-35 with a shorter usable lifespan. I nonetheless wonder if a heavier mainspring and recoil (slide) spring wouldn't attenuate the "life shortening". I've been told that replacing the firing pin stop with one that has NOT been rounded won't help, but that makes no sense to me. Since I've never been able to obtain a flat bottomed firing pin stop, I guess it doesn't matter much.
I wish I was more of a machinist, sometimes...
I imagine heavier springs and a buffered guide rod would help mitigate the damage caused by an over pressure round.

Personally… I don’t see the need or attraction to over pressure ammo. A slower heavier round seems to work well. I get back on target faster.


Cheers,

Tim
 

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...I've been told that replacing the firing pin stop with one that has NOT been rounded won't help, but that makes no sense to me. Since I've never been able to obtain a flat bottomed firing pin stop, I guess it doesn't matter much.
I wish I was more of a machinist, sometimes...
 

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I also converted a BHP to .41AE but could never get it to function reliably. Finally gave up and put it back to 9mm. I still have the conversion kit by Action Arms; barrel, recoil spring and two mags.

Additionally I have a 1911 conversion with barrel, recoil spring and one magazine. I shot it yesterday in a Rock Island 9mm frame/slide. It functioned fine with 180 grain Speer HP bullets but not so great with 170 grain Hornady soft-nose HP bullets. Speer no longer makes the 180 grain bullets which is a shame. Probably won't shoot it much and go back to the 9mm. Bullets for 41 caliber are just too expensive.
I traded off my Browning when the first SA-P9 hit the market (Real CZs were out but expensive and hard to find). Don't think for a second that was an "upgrade", I was just buying stuff to learn about it.

I did later buy a .41 AE kit (also from Action Arms) for the P9, and then a Conversion kit for a .40 S&W when that came out. I don't shoot the .41 any more either.

FWIW I cobbled up a wildcat in the mid-70s using the .35 Rem. case cut off to 21mm that took a 210 gr. .411 bullet - but I never did open up the breech and buy a barrel so it was just a little experiment. When the .41 AE came out that made the experiment a moot point.

One experiment I did continue on with was what I called the "9mm Express". Inspired by the .38 Super Cooper, I was aware that the typical Colt Super .38 barrel at the time had a really long throat (actually it could be described as a bit of "free-bore"). So I stole the Col's idea, and squared off the chamber with a reamer and made .223 cases 24mm long (one mm longer than the Super). My barrel was only 5" so I never got the 125 to 1750 like the Col. but I did hit 1650 !

Funny story, on my first trip to Gunsite I spied the Commander in .38 Super Cooper (which the Col called the "9mm Magnum" IIRC - G&A editors were always coming up with catchy names) and I noticed it had plastic stocks. I was the only one around except the Col and I asked him what happened to the nicely figured Herret stocks on the gun in the book. He smiled and said: "I got tired of picking splinters out of my hand" :)

I did the same thing with .308 cases in .45 caliber, and called it the ".45 Express." A bit later, Detonics came out with the .451 Det. Magnum, which was very slightly shorter, and that made mine a moot point as well.

Riposte
 

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I imagine heavier springs and a buffered guide rod would help mitigate the damage caused by an over pressure round.

Personally… I don’t see the need or attraction to over pressure ammo. A slower heavier round seems to work well. I get back on target faster.


Cheers,

Tim
I spent most of my shooting life "stretching the envelope" - I've come to believe just what you said - heavier and slower beats lighter and faster most of the time (exceptions exist but they are not the norm).

Riposte
 

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Thank you, Boge. I didn't see any firing pin stops for P-35s at EGW.
I probably should have added that it's for 1911's, but would be a great question for one of these Big $$ gunsmiths on whether the same principle would apply here. :unsure:
 

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I'D like VERY much to hear from some of the professional gun smiths on this site, whether the "Square bottomed" firing pin stops would improve matters in the P-35. The principal on which it works so well in the 1911 seems no different (TO ME) in the P-35, though I stipulate that the two pistols are far from identical. The REAL test is to actually TRY such a firing pin stop in a P-35, but their scarcity means machining one from flat stock, which is beyond MY technical skills.
BTW, I DO agree that "heavy and slow" beats "fast and light" routinely, particularly if "heavy and slow" is accompanied by "fat". Unfortunately, these three winning attributes are not in abundance in the P-35, unless we reinvent the wheel and convert it to .40 S&W or .41 AE (makes a square bottom f.p.s. look positively easy by comparison). So, since we are constrained to "dance with whut brung us", we may as well make the most of the platform and cartridge. The higher slide velocities and rebound impacts attendant with more emphatic ammunition must therefore be tamed at every opportunity, lest we batter a fine old weapon into uselessness.
 
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I'D like VERY much to hear from some of the professional gun smiths on this site, whether the "Square bottomed" firing pin stops would improve matters in the P-35.
@slav may know - might even know of tests or a supplier.

I may have to task #3son/lil'bro with cutting one for me, since he's got his milling-setup on his lathe, now.
 

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I'D like VERY much to hear from some of the professional gun smiths on this site, whether the "Square bottomed" firing pin stops would improve matters in the P-35. The principal on which it works so well in the 1911 seems no different (TO ME) in the P-35, though I stipulate that the two pistols are far from identical. The REAL test is to actually TRY such a firing pin stop in a P-35, but their scarcity means machining one from flat stock, which is beyond MY technical skills.
I don't have a 1911 and have never inspected one.

The inside corners are radiused to prevent cracking so the part lasts longer. The back corner has a .015 radius to break the corner but maintains a square edge to slow the slide opening.

Looking at my favorite BHP... I do not see the point of having the bottom of the Firing Pin Retaining Plate be squared off, or flat bottomed as they call it at EGW. The radius on the bottom of the Plate is nicely radiused and seems to work well at pushing the hammer back. It seems like using proper ammo or a different combination of springs is a better option for slowing down the slide.

If someone tries this... please write about it.


Cheers,

Tim
 

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Well, it's a geometry thing, in which the rounded "radiused" bottom part of the f.p.s. acts in similar fashion to a roller surface over which the hammer "rolls"/"slides" easily, requiring less of the slide's backward momentum to push the hammer back into cocked position. Yes, it does work well, TOO well, in this respect, when high(er) performance ammunition is used and slide velocity is very great.
The "squared" or "flat bottomed" f.p.s. does NOT work as much like a roller surface, and requires more effort to push the hammer down into cocked position. This additional "effort" comes from the slide velocity, much of which is dissipated as it overcomes the (now) higher resistance that the hammer has to being pushed down. Momentum used to overcome the greater resistance means less momentum in the slide, thus lower slide velocity, and less battering of slide and frame.
At least in theory.
I'm not sure how you define "proper" ammunition, but the idea behind the "squared"/"flat bottomed" f.p.s., in ADDITION to the different spring combination, is to reduce the stress on the pistol when +P (or +P+?) ammunition is used in it. If, by "proper" ammunition you mean standard velocity ammunition, then our definitions differ. The hope is to enable the piece to tolerate higher performance ammunition, with the intent to deliver an instantaneous and disabling effect to an attacker.
 

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I'm not sure how you define "proper" ammunition, but the idea behind the "squared"/"flat bottomed" f.p.s., in ADDITION to the different spring combination, is to reduce the stress on the pistol when +P (or +P+?) ammunition is used in it. If, by "proper" ammunition you mean standard velocity ammunition, then our definitions differ. The hope is to enable the piece to tolerate higher performance ammunition, with the intent to deliver an instantaneous and disabling effect to an attacker.
Yes… my definition would be standard pressure (not NATO, +P or +P+) 124-147 grain rounds. I believe this is what the BHP was designed for. While I have zero experience with the devastating wound possibilities of any rounds, I know I can more easily and quickly hit my target with (my definition of) proper ammunition. I imagine close range accuracy and multiple speedy accurate follow ups is more important than a faster more devastating round - in the extremely unlikely event I must face an attacker. It’s always a possibility in the back of my mind here in Chicago…


Cheers,

Tim
 

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(I've been gone for a few years, happened to see this thread today).

The problem with evaluating NATO ammo in a BHP is that there is a huge variation in the guns made over the years. And equally huge variations in ammo- not everything made outside the US is actually NATO spec. Heck, NATO itself didn't exist until 1949 and their ammo standards came some time later.

My police duty gun for 10 years was a BHP with the cast frame and allegedly-better slide heat treatment that came around that time. I also tested commercial ammo we were buying, including Federal 9BPLE and Winchester +P+, both 115 gr bullets at an honest 1300 fps. By the time I switched to a certain Austrian plastic gun, my BPH had about 6k rds of standard velocity ammo and a thousand or so of +P+. No evidence of damage, though I did my practice with standard velocity. Older/softer guns would not fare nearly as well.

Cheers!
 

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Perhaps the BH Spring Solutions recoil buffering guide rod would be a good idea for those wanting to run spicy ammo in their Hi Power. It seems to reduce slide velocity before impact with the frame without causing excessive forward slide velocity on the return. Has anyone used one?

Browning Hi-Power Recoil Buffering Guide Rod | BHSpringSolutions LLC
Yes... I have them on several of my shooters. The heaviest spring tames the .40 caliber for me, making it feel more like a 124 gr 9mm standard pressure round, recoil wise. I'm using the medium spring on my 9s... sight acquisition for follow up shots seems quicker. They work and are a nice enhancement to shooting the BHP.

I'm still never gonna use hot/over pressure ammo!


Cheers,

Tim
 

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I understand that ammo marked as 9x19 NATO is loaded to a higher pressure than ammo marked 9 mm Luger.

Would 9x19 NATO be OK to use in older (pre Mk III) Hi Power pistols?
Remember that the BHP was adopted by about 55 NATO countries, all using 9mm NATO ammo.

Back in the mid-1980s, I used to use "white box" 115 grain, and back in the day, it would often cause malfunctions in the then-new Glock (never in S&W 59 Series, Beretta M9 or BHP) because it was underpowered and the Glock was designed for NATO spec ammo and all other kinds of official full-power LE ammo. Glock later made changes, and I have to say I have not experienced a problem since the changes to that pistol. As a result, however, I started using 9mm NATO way back then, and I have never had any issue. None. Nada.

Shoot away with 9mm NATO. You will wear out your pocketbook before your pistol.
 

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Don't use the NATO 9 in your HP - 9mm ammo is the cheapest & most plentiful on the market. You can probably TRADE the Nato 9 for Double the quantity - of average 9mm - to a person who NEEDS / WANTS IT.
Problem Solved, Your'e Welcome.
 

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I understand that ammo marked as 9x19 NATO is loaded to a higher pressure than ammo marked 9 mm Luger.

Would 9x19 NATO be OK to use in older (pre Mk III) Hi Power pistols?
I would (personally) not use unless I could determine well ahead of it use the pressures generated and compare it to the manufacturers of the frame to exceed those pressures. AMMO spec has changed over the last 50-70 years. Do the research prior to field trials. It will prove it self very worth the effort. Many manufactureres barrels rate the design to accept +P or higher pressure ratings. Some do not or were not design at that time to accept.
 

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I understand that ammo marked as 9x19 NATO is loaded to a higher pressure than ammo marked 9 mm Luger.

Would 9x19 NATO be OK to use in older (pre Mk III) Hi Power pistols?
Just went to the SAAMI site and SAAMI has no 9mm Luger with a NATO designations listed in its centerfire pistol cartridge standard (SAAMI Z299.3 – 2015) Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol and Revolver Ammunition for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers. Additionally, 9mm Luger pressure standard says "Obsolete, use 9mm Luger +P proof loads". Early in the document there is a discussion on "Maximum Average Pressure." In the tables showing pressures, there is a column labeled "SERVICE Maximum Average Pressure" (SMAP). Typical...use undefined terms in standards. Testing is with a 115 gr bullet and the SMAP is 38,500 psi.

C.I.P. (the European standards organization equivalent to SAAMI) does not list 9mm Luger NATO in it's specifications. The pressure for 9mm Luger is 2,350 bar which equals 34084 PSI. Did not locate +P or +P+ in the C.I.P. data.

NATO uses NATO STANDARD AOP-4090 for 9mm Luger NATO. Pressure at 21 deg C (69.8 deg F) is 38,435 PAI or 285 MPa. Bullet weight must be between 7.0 & 8.3 grams (108-128 grains). Muzzle energy when calculated at the muzzle must be 542-814 joules (400-600 ft-lbs) (greater >= 482 and <=704 joules at 16 meters which is 654-954 ft-lbs at 52 feet from muzzle). The metric number came from the 2020 NATO spec which I believe is current. The English equivalents are rounded to nears single digit when converted from metric.

The NATO spec has higher allowable pressure than C.I.P. and is comparable to SAAMI 9mm Luger +P specification for pressure. If you look at bullet weight and energy NATO requirements, you may find it difficult to find load data that reaches the NATO energy requirements with loading to +P or possibly +P+ pressures/velocities.

I would guess that most U.S. manufactured ammo that is not +P or +P+ is has pressures lower than SAAMI's +P (remember SAAMI now does not list a pressure for 9mm Luger ammo, only 9mm Luger +P.

You will have to make your decision as to what to do. I will tell you that I own an FN Browning High Power circa 1969 and I would not fire a steady diet of +P+ or +P+ ammo for the simple fact that I don't want the gun to fail. Too valuable to me as it is. I have not issues with any stand 9mm Luger loads in the gun.
 
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