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Bruen and New Jersey

29034 Views 1102 Replies 27 Participants Last post by  1911_Kid
Went to the latest Nappen seminar tonight. Official title of it was, "Supreme Court, NYSRPA v. Bruen: How It Impacts Your State's Gun Laws". I'll give you the bad news first. NJ is bent on taking liberties with the most extreme gun laws in the nation. Some state goes off the deep end, Murphy thinks it's his job to top it. So tomorrow, Thursday, October 13 he will hold a news conference at noon to expand carry restrictions. Details are not fully available yet. ANJRPC will have them on their site later in the day. Here's what I have:

More "sensitive" places.
No carry on property you don't own without the property owner's expressed permission. Private or commercial.
Changes to application process.
Hefty, and I mean really hefty, fee increase.
Insurance and proof of insurance.
No carry in a vehicle.
Training requirements increased.

That's all I know right now about that. There will be immediate legal challenges as soon as these are inacted. Justice Thomas in his majority opinion called 2A restrictions civil rights violations. That's a federal crime. Government individuals can be held responsible for civil rights violations. Even judges. That's all about that until the news conference. They are trying to create obstacles to nullify Bruen. There are other things that came up. I'll post them later. Let this soak in.
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Admin moved the thread here and I approve that. Here's a few more things that Nappen touched on. Those restrictions also apply to people who had carry permits before Bruen. The new restrictions may also change how they do RPOs and security guards. Ocean County has added another judge to help with permit approval due to volume. He is applying no restrictions. Other judge is applying every restriction she can think of. Crap shoot who you get. All this may change after the noontime news conference. Bergen County still very bad. If a judge calls you in for a personal interview Nappen said you are better off withdrawing your application. They came up with a technical error in your application that you didn't know about or think about and will nail you for falsifying the app. Withdraw and reapply until things blow over. Bergen only so far. Pre 1968 anything without a serial number is a second degree felony. Flintlock, .22, anything. Covert guns are illegal in NJ. Those ones that look like credit cards or cell phones. Old time cane guns. One final thing, if you go to an out of state gun show ( Allentown, Oaks, for ex. ) Murphy has patrols in the parking lot looking for Jersey plates. They are stopping cars at the border or waiting at your house for you. I don't know what happens after that.
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ANJRPC alerted Nappen about this news conference on his way to the seminar. They are already working on it. He says as soon as it is official they'll file an injunction to stop it. His next podcast should be interesting.
Side note: anecdotally, 2 other colleagues of mine approached me in the last week asking about ‘how to’ apply for their FID cards for them to obtain home defense handguns. I don’t think either have ever fired a handgun.
With all the violent crime going on all over, people don’t seem to be backing down from wanting to be able to protect themselves and their families.
There's a training requirement in place for new FID applicants. State police website should by now have it up. Another obsticle.
If these ongoing actions by our state officials meet the criteria as civil rights violations as per Justice Thomas’ opinion and decision in Brunen; Then, start filing whatever the appropriate suits would be against whoever it applies to, Murphy, judges et al.
Yep. Remember in my other post that a state assemblyman once told me that they routinely pass legislation that they know is unconstitutional. This was at a pro 2A meeting 14 years ago and he claimed to be a 2A advocate. I forget his name and I don't know if he is still in office. He was from Morris County.
I’ve told more than a few people over the last few years to go take a safety/handling/shooting class. Then go shoot!
Governmental over reach is never the answer.
I have a feeling they are going to see that you are trained and then use that training against you in a court case for a defensive shooting.
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Nappen said they will split the approvals. I used to be on NJGF about 12 or so years ago. I got off it because they were spreading rumor as fact. I don't see much of that on this site. That's why I signed up.
Where is our Attorney General on all this?
No idea.
No. That will be part of Murphy's state wide ban in the news conference. They will file an injunction against the whole thing when it is official.
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Something else that Nappen mentioned, and this applies to all states, is that there is a medical equivalent of a red flag law. Any medical person, doctor, nurse, orderly is obligated to report any gun owner who has even the slightest indication of violence. Just an off the cuff remark will trigger it if they are aware you are a gun owner. A silly comment could mean big trouble.
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Please Immediately Contact All Legislators!​

October 13, 2022. At a press conference today, legislative leaders in the New Jersey state house announced plans to attack and destroy right to carry, in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent Bruen decision upholding right to carry and making it impossible for states like New Jersey to continue blocking issuance of carry permits.

Although text of proposed legislation was not available when this alert was prepared, legislative leaders described its features, and it sounds strangely similar to (if not worse than) New York’s anti-carry law passed this summer, which was recently stopped in its tracks by an injunction issued by the usually-anti-gun federal district court there.

According to lawmakers, they plan to:

-Ban carry in common public places by labeling them as “sensitive places” (plainly forbidden by Bruen)

-Ban carry inside one’s own car (plainly forbidden by Bruen);

-Ban carry on commercial and private property, unless the property owner posts notices allowing it (plainly unconstitutional);

-Massively increase fees for permits (plainly forbidden by Bruen, and discriminates against low-income citizens);

-Mandate special insurance (which may not even be available) as a pre-condition to exercise constitutional rights (plainly unconstitutional);

-Mandate a new, unusual training requirement (beyond the already-difficult one that has existed for decades) – raises serious constitutional questions.

“These attacks by New Jersey lawmakers are a big middle finger to the U.S Supreme Court,” said ANJRPC Executive Director Scott Bach. “These lawmakers have no respect for the Constitution or the rule of law – they focus on attacking citizens’ rights while setting violent criminals free. We look forward to overturning these measures in court and forcing the state to pay our legal fees.”​
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Another thing Nappen mentioned. You can't carry a loaded rifle even though you have a carry permit. Practice and hunting are not affected.
I had the local news on earlier looking for the conference. It wasn’t televised from what I could tell. This governor hasn’t had an original thought with anything. It would seem he’s just trying to go Hochal in NY one better in his attempt to ignore and trample our rights.
It would seem to me, the one’s that need more training in the BOR/Constitution is the governor and the respective judges.
Exactly what Nappen said. He has to one up the worst to be the worst.
I was waiting to hear, too. I can't find text on it either. Maybe he didn't do it. I'll keep checking the ANJRPC site.
I found it. It wasn't Murphy. Page 2 to follow.

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — New Jersey lawmakers unveiled new legislation Thursday to rewrite the state's firearm carry laws after the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in June expanding gun rights.
Democratic Assembly Speaker Craig Coughlin and Senate President Nicholas Scutari, surrounded by other lawmakers and red T-shirt-clad Moms Demand Action supporters, said the new measure will bar permit holders from carrying in schools, polling places, bars, restaurants, theaters, sports arenas, airports, casinos and child care facilities.
It also sets up a new requirement that permit holders carry insurance to protect against accidental discharge, coverage that Scutari said is already available in insurance marketplaces. The bill increases permitting, though the exact amount wasn't immediately clear. The funds will be put toward compensation for crime victims under the legislation.
The measure also calls for permit holders to undergo gun safety training and would set up a vetting process that requires non-family references to vouch for applicants. It would disqualify applicants with past violations of restraining orders and other “character of temperament” concerns, though just how those issues would be defined wasn't immediately clear.
The lawmakers said they looked to New York's recent carry law, though a federal court said recently that parts of the law were unconstitutional.
“I’m a gun owner. I enjoy my guns often, but I enjoyed the right to have those guns and to use them responsibly,” Democratic Assembly member and bill sponsor Joe Danielsen said. “This bill provides zero conflict.”
Coughlin said the bill tries to prevent gun tragedies while abiding by the Supreme Court's decision. Scutari echoed that idea, saying the measure struck a balance that permits “constitutionally allowable gun carrying, but not just anywhere you want it to be.”
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Page 2.

The state's National Rifle Association affiliate said in a statement that the New Jersey proposal too closely resembled New York's.
“These attacks by New Jersey lawmakers are a big middle finger to the U.S Supreme Court,” said Scott Bach, the director of the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs. "We look forward to overturning these measures in court and forcing the state to pay our legal fees.”
The high court's decision struck down a New York law requiring people to demonstrate a particular need for carrying a gun to get a license to carry a gun in a concealed way publicly. New Jersey, California, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts and Rhode Island all had similar laws.
New Jersey lawmakers had acknowledged after the ruling that the state would likely have to update its laws. Thursday's announcement was an early step in that direction. The bills are expected to get a vote in the Assembly later this month. A timeline in the Senate is not clear, Scutari said.
Democratic Gov. Phil Murphy worked with lawmakers on drafting the legislation and looks forward to signing the bill, spokesperson Alyana Alfaro said in an emailed statement.
“By working together, we can take commonsense steps to keep the public safe from gun violence,” she said.
Murphy has been a major backer of tighter gun laws and has signed a number of gun rights restrictions, including legislation authorizing the state attorney general to use public nuisance laws to bring suits against gun makers.
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The article didn't mention not in vehicles. Either they left it out or the legislators didn't include it.
I couldn't figure that either. I have never said or thought "I enjoy my guns". He must be the only Democrat in state government that they could find who has a gun. This "character of temperament" is the ambiguous kind of thing that Bergen County is using to deny applicants.
They added car. Holster strap just tells you they have no idea about safe gun handling. Looks like you can't have it loaded at all inside your vehicle. The hijacker lobby must be stronger than I thought.
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That extensive training requirement might be the worst one in there. If you go before a liberal judge after a defensive shooting all your lawyer's objections will be over ruled. The prosecutor will, by definition, prosecute in front of a jury that has only Hollywood knowledge about guns. "He had extensive training. He could have delivered a "flesh wound" but he shot to kill and as a result, a loving family was placed in unnecessary grief on what should have been a pleasant family day".
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