Bruen and New Jersey

28571 Views 1087 Replies 27 Participants Last post by lonerider1013, 3 h ago

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · 8 mo ago

Went to the latest Nappen seminar tonight. Official title of it was, "Supreme Court, NYSRPA v. Bruen: How It Impacts Your State's Gun Laws". I'll give you the bad news first. NJ is bent on taking liberties with the most extreme gun laws in the nation. Some state goes off the deep end, Murphy thinks it's his job to top it. So tomorrow, Thursday, October 13 he will hold a news conference at noon to expand carry restrictions. Details are not fully available yet. ANJRPC will have them on their site later in the day. Here's what I have:

More "sensitive" places.
No carry on property you don't own without the property owner's expressed permission. Private or commercial.
Changes to application process.
Hefty, and I mean really hefty, fee increase.
Insurance and proof of insurance.
No carry in a vehicle.
Training requirements increased.

That's all I know right now about that. There will be immediate legal challenges as soon as these are inacted. Justice Thomas in his majority opinion called 2A restrictions civil rights violations. That's a federal crime. Government individuals can be held responsible for civil rights violations. Even judges. That's all about that until the news conference. They are trying to create obstacles to nullify Bruen. There are other things that came up. I'll post them later. Let this soak in.

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combat auto

· #1,061 · 8 d ago

Wildbob and Plant', we of course know we can carry in our vehicles on body/loaded, BUT what are you opinions on whether we can have the loaded gun in a holster in the auto say in a glove box/console? None of the podcast from Nappen/GFH (as far as I recall) have explicitly said one way or another.

As an aside, one of the main reasons I wanted my carry is sometimes I go 4 wheeling alone in the many NJ parks (and I am so happy Lefty can't enforce their evil laws in this areas), in these cases I find it reasonable to have it in the console for protection rather than on my body like I might want in more populated areas. And it would be much more comfortable of course.

C.A.

1911_Kid

· #1,062 · 8 d ago

Wildbob said:
The antis will pay more for nothing.

Who funds the antis? Taxpayers and Soros? Taxpayers should recoup every penny for stupid govt crap like this !

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,063 · 8 d ago

combat auto said:
Wildbob and Plant', we of course know we can carry in our vehicles on body/loaded, BUT what are you opinions on whether we can have the loaded gun in a holster in the auto say in a glove box/console? None of the podcast from Nappen/GFH (as far as I recall) have explicitly said one way or another.

As an aside, one of the main reasons I wanted my carry is sometimes I go 4 wheeling alone in the many NJ parks (and I am so happy Lefty can't enforce their evil laws in this areas), in these cases I find it reasonable to have it in the console for protection rather than on my body like I might want in more populated areas. And it would be much more comfortable of course.

C.A.

I'm not sure about it. I never saw that mentioned, either. Same thing if you go to a post office. Like I mentioned, I'm not sure but I don't think you can put it in the glove box or console. I think what you have to do is unload it and put it in the trunk or a locked case. I think, don't know. Good question for the ANJRPC lawyer free question.

Grandpas50AE

· #1,064 · 8 d ago

Wildbob said:
I'm not sure about it. I never saw that mentioned, either. Same thing if you go to a post office. Like I mentioned, I'm not sure but I don't think you can put it in the glove box or console. I think what you have to do is unload it and put it in the trunk or a locked case. I think, don't know. Good question for the ANJRPC lawyer free question.

The Post Office is forbidden to have a gun anywhere on the property (including the parking lot) according to Federal law.

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,065 · 8 d ago

Grandpas50AE said:
The Post Office is forbidden to have a gun anywhere on the property (including the parking lot) according to Federal law.

I know but what do you do with your carry when you go in or do you just have to go there without it?

Grandpas50AE

· #1,066 · 8 d ago

Wildbob said:
I know but what do you do with your carry when you go in?

For me, I park along the street adjoining the post office so I can lock it in the vehicle safe (I live in a semi-rural area so there is spacce to do that - not everyone has that option though). I go to the post office maybe twice a year; I get stamps at the grocery store (they can be had online as well from USPS.gov), and most of my packages go UPS or FedEx.

Reactions: 1

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,067 · 8 d ago

Grandpas50AE said:
For me, I park along the street adjoining the post office so I can lock it in the vehicle safe (I live in a semi-rural area so there is spacce to do that - not everyone has that option though). I go to the post office maybe twice a year; I get stamps at the grocery store (they can be had online as well from USPS.gov), and most of my packages go UPS or FedEx.

That’s a good idea. Just don’t enter the parking lot.

Reactions: 1

1911_Kid

· #1,068 · 8 d ago

Wildbob said:
I know but what do you do with your carry when you go in or do you just have to go there without it?

Best to simply not ask. Just "store" it in locked vehicle. Life or Death, and you live to talk about how you had it on PO parking lot.

I CCW everywhere, I just don't tell anyone, nor do I ask.

2A.,.............................................................. 2A.

USMM guy

· #1,069 · 8 d ago

Grandpas50AE said:
For me, I park along the street adjoining the post office so I can lock it in the vehicle safe (I live in a semi-rural area so there is spacce to do that - not everyone has that option though). I go to the post office maybe twice a year; I get stamps at the grocery store (they can be had online as well from USPS.gov), and most of my packages go UPS or FedEx.

This is what I do, I park on the shoulder of the State road.

Plantar5

· #1,070 · 8 d ago

combat auto said:
Wildbob and Plant', we of course know we can carry in our vehicles on body/loaded, BUT what are you opinions on whether we can have the loaded gun in a holster in the auto say in a glove box/console? None of the podcast from Nappen/GFH (as far as I recall) have explicitly said one way or another.

As an aside, one of the main reasons I wanted my carry is sometimes I go 4 wheeling alone in the many NJ parks (and I am so happy Lefty can't enforce their evil laws in this areas), in these cases I find it reasonable to have it in the console for protection rather than on my body like I might want in more populated areas. And it would be much more comfortable of course.

C.A.

I’ve wondered myself regarding driving with a loaded gun unholstered. It took some doing but I did find one that’s comfortable for me while driving. I even considered keeping a second holster in the bag I carry my iPad, etc, back and forth to the office. In case I took the gun off my person. My rationale is that it’s basically the same as a woman carrying, right? As far as running into a PO to do some business, I’d leave it in the car/truck console or car safe for the few minutes. I’m not unloading anything. I’m in a rural town where parking is easy and close.

Plantar5

· #1,071 · 7 d ago (Edited)

Grandpas50AE said:
The Post Office is forbidden to have a gun anywhere on the property (including the parking lot) according to Federal law.

Not that it would ever change, but I do think post offices should be exempt. Post offices are more of a retail store in many senses vs court houses, political government town halls,etc.
I would presume that judges, lawyers and off duty LE are exempt.

About 28 years ago, there was a shooting at a local post office in NJ, by the disgruntled postal worker that used to work there. I lived in the town at the time. 5 shot, 4 killed. Maybe, if people were armed, it could have spared some. Same old story I guess, I know…

www.nytimes.com

DEATH IN THE POST OFFICE: 4 Shot Dead in New Jersey Post Office; Wide Manhunt but Motive Is Not Clear (Published 1995)

www.nytimes.com

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,072 · 7 d ago

Since we live in a state where the governor regularly violates federal law, we have several precedent cases.

Grandpas50AE

· #1,073 · 7 d ago

Plantar5 said:
Not that it would ever change, but I do think post offices should be exempt. Post offices are more of a retail store in many senses vs court houses, political government town halls,etc.
I would presume that judges, lawyers and off duty LE are exempt.

About 28 years ago, there was a shooting at a local post office in NJ, by the disgruntled postal worker that used to work there. I lived in the town at the time. 5 shot, 4 killed. Maybe, if people were armed, it could have spared some. Same old story I guess, I know…

DEATH IN THE POST OFFICE: 4 Shot Dead in New Jersey Post Office; Wide Manhunt but Motive Is Not Clear (Published 1995)

www.nytimes.com

I think there was a "rash" of the post office shootings that happened about 30 -35 years ago, hence the term "going postal". I think that is when Congress passed the law no guns on post office property. I agree with you that maybe if the postal employees were carrying there wouldn't have been such casualties, but politicians (even back then) didn't think that way. Sad indeed.

combat auto

· #1,074 · 7 d ago

Plantar5 said:
I’ve wondered myself regarding driving with a loaded gun unholstered. It took some doing but I did find one that’s comfortable for me while driving. I even considered keeping a second holster in the bag I carry my iPad, etc, back and forth to the office. In case I took the gun off my person. My rationale is that it’s basically the same as a woman carrying, right? As far as running into a PO to do some business, I’d leave it in the car/truck console or car safe for the few minutes. I’m not unloading anything. I’m in a rural town where parking is easy and close.

A few months ago I did call Nappens office via my LawShield privilege's, as usual David called me back. I am not sure if David is also a lawyer or a para-legal of some type, but he is pretty good. he basically told me it was uncertain and until there is a "test-case" in court we will not know for sure...I also used the women's pocket bag analogy and he said that wasn't clear either...(I was hopping one of you might have heard something more definitive since then)

I don't want to be that "test-case" LOL, but on the other hand, at least in (some) pro-gun Townships it would be a surprise to me if you pick any "random" cop and ask him if he would arrest someone with a carry-permit when all other things are in order only because his loaded gun which is also holstered was in the center console rather than one's body, and get a "yes" answer from the cop....Still, I haven't decided yet.

(IF) you do decide at this time to put it off body in auto I would keep it in a holster because Napped had mention how important it is to have a "good" holster which covers the trigger guard....

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1911_Kid

· #1,075 · 7 d ago (Edited)

combat auto said:
(IF) you do decide at this time to put it off body in auto I would keep it in a holster because Napped had mention how important it is to have a "good" holster which covers the trigger guard....

Blahhhh. Unless the firearm has no safety, or has been ill modified, a holster protects the finish. Yeah, and item bouncing around can indeed have the safety move if it knocks something just the right way.
I perhaps throw out the risk of trying to grab a pistol in various holsters where 'you' perhaps finger the trigger area while attempting to remove it from holster. The more stuff you have in the way, the higher the risk of something bad happening. Example 2: Having to unload a firearm before entering school property to drop kid off, and then you re-load right after front wheel hit publich street. The unload and load is risky, about on-par with takeoff and landing of airplanes.

combat auto

· #1,076 · 6 d ago (Edited)

1911_Kid said:
Blahhhh. Unless the firearm has no safety, or has been ill modified, a holster protects the finish. Yeah, and item bouncing around can indeed have the safety move if it knocks something just the right way.
I perhaps throw out the risk of trying to grab a pistol in various holsters where 'you' perhaps finger the trigger area while attempting to remove it from holster. The more stuff you have in the way, the higher the risk of something bad happening. Example 2: Having to unload a firearm before entering school property to drop kid off, and then you re-load right after front wheel hit publich street. The unload and load is risky, about on-par with takeoff and landing of airplanes.

I'm not arguing either way about the safety of having an un-holstered gun in a vehicle, what I am saying is that Nappen (and more than once) explicitly mentions the gun has to be in a holster which coving the trigger guard. This is a requirement and not debatable (per law)...Separately, whether the gun can be off body (holstered) in the auto is uncertain (per law).

In other words, if one choose to have their gun off body right now in an auto, you can put yourself at (risk) of one felony charge (the gun is holstered off body) or two felony charges (the gun is not holstered off body in auto)...User's "choice".

Plantar5

· #1,077 · 6 d ago (Edited)

CA, so in your scenario off-road recreation, (a planned event, if you will ) why wouldn’t you have your pistol on your person? Just curious. Beyond that, the other remedy is to use one of the small gun safes. I’ve got one. Fwiw, it should satisfy LE or a ranger.
A few years ago, (pre Bruen), I got pulled over on Rt80 headed to work and the cop (not NJSP) saw my NRA range bag that I use to carry paperwork,IPad etc on my passenger seat; and asked if I had any firearms in the car. I didn’t and said no, that was it. But I’ve wondered now, if the same thing happens and I do have anything, am I in trouble? The answer is…..that depends…

Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,078 · 6 d ago

And the vehicle rules are different depending on if you have the carry permit or you don't for transport.

1911_Kid

· #1,079 · 6 d ago

combat auto said:
I'm not arguing either way about the safety of having an un-holstered gun in a vehicle, what I am saying is that Nappen (and more than once) explicitly mentions the gun has to be in a holster which coving the trigger guard. This is a requirement and not debatable (per law)...Separately, whether the gun can be off body (holstered) in the auto is uncertain (per law).

In other words, if one choose to have their gun off body right now in an auto, you can put yourself at (risk) of one felony charge (the gun is holstered off body) or two felony charges (the gun is not holstered off body in auto)...User's "choice".

If the law does not explcitly say on or off body, then either seem legit by default. Isn't that the general ruling by Bumb?
In AZ, if the law does not explicity define something, the Legislature can make enforceable rules by continuing resolution per State constitution.

Ok, here's my "holster" that covers trigger guard.

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Wildbob

Discussion Starter · #1,080 · 6 d ago

In case anybody wants this.

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