1911Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When using a shotgun for defense do you prefer a tight or fairly quick opening pattern...and why? What do you believe your maximum effective range with buckshot to be...and which one do you like 000, 00, 0, 1,4?

Also if you have a shotgun that you use for defense what is it and how is it choked.

Thanks,

Bob
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
What is right for me may not be right for you. One size does not fit all, when it comes to home defense. There are too many variables.

What is right for me is my improved-cylinder Police 870, with 2 3/4" Remington 00 buck.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Side question

shane45-1911,
Very nice picture.
I have to ask, why is the forward shotgun cartridge inserted with the brass up while all the others have the brass down? Was this done for a reason? :confused:

Sorry Bob, I don't mean to side track the thread, but you know me.

Thanks,
Rich
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
redgldn said:
why is the forward shotgun cartridge inserted with the brass up while all the others have the brass down? Was this done for a reason?
Absolutely. Think about how you reload for a moment.....

You pump the action open, and where does the heel of your support hand end up? Right underneath the first shell in the side saddle. It is very easy for the heel of this hand to push the shell up, and be grabbed by your other hand over top of the receiver and drop it into onto the carrier through the ejection port.

It is A LOT faster to reload the first shell into the chamber this way, rather than to pull down on that shell and then bring it all the way back up underneath the receiver and up and in.

This gets a round into the chamber as fast as possible in case you only have time to reload one round. The rest of the shells can be loaded as normal through the loading port as time permits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
shane45-1911 said:
Absolutely. Think about how you reload for a moment.....

You pump the action open, and where does the heel of your support hand end up? Right underneath the first shell in the side saddle. It is very easy for the heel of this hand to push the shell up, and be grabbed by your other hand over top of the receiver and drop it into onto the carrier through the ejection port.

It is A LOT faster to reload the first shell into the chamber this way, rather than to pull down on that shell and then bring it all the way back up underneath the receiver and up and in.

This gets a round into the chamber as fast as possible in case you only have time to reload one round. The rest of the shells can be loaded as normal through the loading port as time permits.
pretty cool
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Persuader

I think your environment and body size/abilities can influence your choice. I use 00 buck and cylinder bore - Mossberg Persuader (590A), 20 inch, Ghost Ring sites, 8+1 magazine... I keep it with a bandolier filled with half 00 and half slugs in my bedroom safe. Why, I bought this when I lived in my previous house. The house was a small ranch with a small yard surrounded by woods. I felt at the time it would cover my area well, inside (00 buck) and out (00 buck or slugs for longer range). Long range was not a big issue. If I need a rifle then my deer rifle would work to really reach out. My new home has a bigger yard, two floors, and sits off the road. I am actually looking at either a Rem 870 or Win Defender with 18 inch barrel for inside the house - they seem smaller then the Persuader. Plus, having two 12 gauge pumpers seems like a good idea to me. Bought a mini-14 for the outside yard, and the 308 semi is coming next year.

I feel the 00 bucks effective range is 25 yards, and 100 yards with slugs. I am sure 00 buck can be effective out to 50 yards with a tighter choke then cylinder bore, but I was surprised at the spread with mine at 50 yards. I am sure even with cylinder bore a couple or so pellets will hit at 50 yards, but by then I would start pumping slugs into the magazine and keep moving away...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks....

...for all the replies.

Have any of you patterned your buckshot? The reason I ask is that I had two students last week for a shotgun class. One of them had standard high-velocity 00 and some older low recoil tactical. The other guy had some of the new Federal Tactical 00. Both had cylinder bore guns.

At 10 yards the guy with the older buckshot was getting your normal 2-4" patterns of spreading buckshot...the other guy was cutting holes that looked like slugs with the new tactical. You could see the shot buffer marks on the target. At 50' the old stuff had spread to about 6-8". The new stuff was still cutting one hole. Two shots at the head of the target produced no center hits with the old buckshot out of the 18 pellets and only 5 total hits...the new rounds would have blown out the back of ones head.

At 25 yards the old stuff was putting 6-8 pellets on target. The patterns of the new Federal Tactical were about what the patterns at 10 yards were for the old stuff.

At 50 yards the old stuff was running 40-50% on target. With the new you could do head shots, with all pellets hitting....!

One guy had a Remington 1100 with a 20' cylinder choked barrel that was ported. The guy with the old buckshot a H&K Bennelli Tactical. They switched buckshot and the results were about the same...the H&K threw slightly larger patterns but not much. We recovered some of the new Federal Tactical wads...it is what is making the difference in the patterns.

And Rich...no I don't mind if you hi-jack my thread...now go get a shotgun.

Bob
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
SuperMan said:
Have any of you patterned your buckshot?
With my improved cylinder, mine keeps all 9 pellets of 00 on a stardard IDPA/IPSC silhouette target at 25 yds. I would not fire mine beyond that distance as the spread increases dramatically beyond that range.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Anyone remember what the rule of thumb is for the spread of 00 Buck ? Best I remember it is something like 1 inch for every 3 feet from an open bore.

I know during shotgun quals I had to engage a 25 yard target with 00 Buck and the spread was roughly 27 inches or so.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
Mark, your spread sounds about right at that distance.

Rather than try to remember a formula, I simply teach that if your target is more than 25 yds. away, you're going to lose some pellets.

Most people know approximately how far 25 yds. is, as it is the standard pistol range distance. An easy way to know 25 yds. is that when you look downrange at your target overtop of the muzzle, the typical shotgun's muzzle will cover about 24" at 25 yds. In other words, if your target fills the barrel width (or greater) when you look at your target over the muzzle, you're good to go. If the target does not fill the width of the barrel (ie, barrel is wider than target) when overlooking the muzzle, you're out of range.

Of course, that's a generalization, but it works very well for most purposes using 18" barrels with imp. cyl. chokes and 2 3/4" 9-pellet 00 buck like we do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Great rig ! I'm going to have to add more stuff to these.. :))

shane45-1911 said:
What is right for me may not be right for you. One size does not fit all, when it comes to home defense. There are too many variables.

What is right for me is my improved-cylinder Police 870, with 2 3/4" Remington 00 buck.

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
110 Posts
shane45-1911 said:
Absolutely. Think about how you reload for a moment.....

You pump the action open, and where does the heel of your support hand end up? Right underneath the first shell in the side saddle. It is very easy for the heel of this hand to push the shell up, and be grabbed by your other hand over top of the receiver and drop it into onto the carrier through the ejection port.

It is A LOT faster to reload the first shell into the chamber this way, rather than to pull down on that shell and then bring it all the way back up underneath the receiver and up and in.

This gets a round into the chamber as fast as possible in case you only have time to reload one round. The rest of the shells can be loaded as normal through the loading port as time permits.

Then why not have all of the shells stored brass up? That way, you don't necessarilly have to select the one "correct" shell in the heat of combat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Federal Tactical...

....well if anyone is interested in increasing their range to 50+ yards the stock number on this new Federal Tactical Buckshot is LE132 00. Box says it features the "NEW FLITECONTROL WAD". Like was posted earlier the guy with the Remington made a headshot at 50 yards. 6/9 hit the head and the only reason all 9 didn't make it into the head was the center of the pattern was high left on the target. Center it and all 9 would have been in.

Thanks to all who have posted so far.

Bob
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
Klingon said:
Then why not have all of the shells stored brass up? That way, you don't necessarilly have to select the one "correct" shell in the heat of combat.
Because the heel of your hand is not in the correct position to push up on the remaining shells. The idea is that the heel of your hand pushes UP on the one shell only, almost popping it out of the sidesaddle into your other hand. There is no "selecting" anything. Your hand FEELS that one shell and the heel of your hand instinctively pushes up on it. It is a very tactile method of loading the first round when a reload is required.

As I said, this allows you to get one shell into the chamber quickly. It is not the quickest way to get the other shells into the shotgun - but it is definitely the quickest to get one shell into the chamber when you need it most after your shotgun has run dry.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
SuperMan said:
....well if anyone is interested in increasing their range to 50+ yards the stock number on this new Federal Tactical Buckshot is LE132 00.
I have evaluated this ammo extensively. The problem is that most officers use imp. cyl. chokes and short barrels. There is simply no way an imp. cyl. 18" (or 14") shottie is going to keep all pellets on target at 50 yds. regardless of the wadding.

Your turkey gun may be fine out to 50 yds. with this stuff, however. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Oh yes..

...both these guns were cylinder bore guns.....the wad makes that much difference.

I hope to be able to test some in my gun soon. I have several different barnds and will post how they do.

Bob
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
SuperMan said:
...both these guns were cylinder bore guns.....the wad makes that much difference.
Not in the 36+ shotguns that I evaluated it didn't. Not even close. And some of those tested were benched as well as shot offhand. Other agencies that I supplied this ammo to for independant testing confirmed my results. Not a SINGLE case of all pellets on target at 50 yds.

Besides, you have made the wrong choice of weapon if you are shooting a shotgun at 50 yds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
That is very interesting. I am not sure if I can borrow a 14" gun from anyone but know I can get an 18". I can not see where 2" of barrel would make that much difference. How many pellets were you getting on target compared to regular buckshot?

As to "having the wrong wepon.." could not agree more...however one of my sergents at Dallas PD killed an armed robber running though the projects at 40 yards with a shotgun....one pellet hit the guy in the head and killed him dead...the other eight...well at least no one else was hit. :)

Bob
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
Bob, you have touched on the key here. "How many pellets on target compared to regular buckshot" is the trick. Absolutely, the new Federal Buckshot was putting more pellets on target at 50 yds. - but not ALL of them - ever.

The average from what I can remember without immediate access to my notes is that 5 or 6 pellets of the new Federal stuff stayed on paper - compared to 3 or 4 pellets of various assorted other buckshot loads.

So yes, I agree - the Fed. Tactical loads put more lead on target than most (all?) other 00 loads - but I could not get a single instance of all 9 pellets hitting at 50 yds. no matter how much I tried - or which shottie we used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Porting...

....I am also wondering if the fact that the 1100 barrel was ported and the H&K was not made any difference in the patterns. The guy with the H&K only fired 1-2 rounds of the Federal but the groups were MUCH tighter than what he was getting with either of the Winchester loads he was using. One was HV and the other Low Recoil.

Porting may have relieved some of the pressure and allowed the wad to be more stabil...

So did those agencies go to the Federal?

Bob
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top