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Complete USGI pistols can be transfered using a C&R (they were all made 1945 and earlier). Bare frames (assuming you ever found one) still require an FFL.
 

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Ranger,
I think this answers my question and covers them all:
Under Section A
"All properly marked and identified semiautomatic pistols and revolvers used by, or mfd. for, any military organization prior to 1946. "
:)
 

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The problem ususally arises from individual ATF agents. A local gun shop got a warning for not having an original Trapdoor Springfield recorded on it's books. The agent went so far as to provide the store with copies of the regulation requiring the Trapdoor be recorded, so apparently he had done this before. The copy of the regulation he handed out actually said that any replica of an antique firearm that fired modern readily available ammunition was not considered an antique.
 

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Every firearm over 50 years old is a C&R. ATF considers the part of the firearm containing the serial number to be THE firearm, the rest of the parts is just parts. Period. To be redundant, there is no such thing as a "frame" regulated by ATF, only firearms and the part with the serial number is the firearm. Only its age counts.

This means "frames" over 50 years old are C&R too.

A "National Match" M1911 built on a firearm built in 1955 or earlier is 50 years old and is a Curio and Relic.

-- Chuck
 

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Chuck S said:
Every firearm over 50 years old is a C&R. ATF considers the part of the firearm containing the serial number to be THE firearm, the rest of the parts is just parts. Period. To be redundant, there is no such thing as a "frame" regulated by ATF, only firearms and the part with the serial number is the firearm. Only its age counts.

This means "frames" over 50 years old are C&R too.

A "National Match" M1911 built on a firearm built in 1955 or earlier is 50 years old and is a Curio and Relic.

-- Chuck
Again I think this says it all:

"All properly marked and identified semiautomatic pistols and revolvers used by, or mfd. for, any military organization prior to 1946. "

Seems to me it is a blanket statement by the ATF that covers them all as C&R weapons. :)
 

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On C&R military weapons, it is considered C&R as long as it is in it's original configuration. Break a C&R military rifle like the 1903 Springfield down to just the receiver, and it must be transferred on regular FFL, or if the rifle has been sporterized extensively it becomes a FFL transfer. Most modifications to C&R weapons done by the military (like the Springfield NM pistols) still retain their C&R stature.
 

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Johnny Peppers said:
On C&R military weapons, it is considered C&R as long as it is in it's original configuration. Break a C&R military rifle like the 1903 Springfield down to just the receiver, and it must be transferred on regular FFL, or if the rifle has been sporterized extensively it becomes a FFL transfer. Most modifications to C&R weapons done by the military (like the Springfield NM pistols) still retain their C&R stature.
Johnny, thanks for the clarity on the NM pistols. I was once told since they were modified from their original configuration by SA or RIA they no longer qualified as C&R weapons. Bad info or interpertation I rekon, and I have encountered some folks who treat them as FFL items. I was aware strpped frames and receivers were FFL items, since I purchased an M1 Carbine reciever from Numrich Arms some years back. Thanks again.
 

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Here is a brief explanation of a C&R rifle altered by the military.


"The key word in these lists are “original”.* That is, if the rifle was altered as a sporter, it no longer is eligible as a C&R rifle.* One has to be careful about that.* The question is, at what point is it considered “altered”?* There is also some debate about rifles that were altered by the military into another military rifle, such as a 7mm 1916 Spanish Mauser into a 7.62 NATO “Guardia Civil”.* There are some that argue that it was altered and is therefore not eligible.* I had sent in that specific question to ATF.* Here is the reply:

“You also asked if the “Modelo 1916 Spanish Short rifle Mauser” rifle is classified as a curio or relic.* Any Spanish Model 1916 military rifles in original military configuration quality as curios or relics as that term is defined in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, part 178, section 178.11 {NOTE:* See insert above}.* This classification includes the FR7 and FR8 variations chambered for the 7.62 Cetme cartridge.* These curios or relics may be transferred to federally licensed collections as provided in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR part 478.* They are still firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(3).”
 

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Some more C & R info. The title is for relics (old guns) and curios (not neccessarily old guns). Guns that have their value due to being rare, collectible, novel, bizarre, etc can also be purchased with a C & R regardless of their age. Some manufacturers that make and sell commemorative guns get a "determination" by ATF as its value being a collectible gun rather than a shootable gun and can be sold to C & R holders, even if it is a modern gun. Colt and Winchester (USRA) have dozens of modern guns listed this way. Individuals can also request ATF make a determination on a gun in which its value is in its design, ownership, or other charistics. For example two Colt SAAs were presented to actor Chuck Conners with SN CC1 and CC2 and are listed as C & R guns with ATF. A list of C & R guns ia available as a booklet from ATF.
The first page in the booklet contains a letter from the ATF Director clearly stating the ATF understanding that gun collecting is a very important part of preserving our country's heritage and ATF promotes private ownership of guns, while trying to stop the usage of guns in crimes. Bob
 

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Some more C & R info. The title is for relics (old guns) and curios (not neccessarily old guns). Guns that have their value due to being rare, collectible, novel, bizarre, etc can also be purchased with a C & R regardless of their age. Some manufacturers that make and sell commemorative guns get a "determination" by ATF as its value being a collectible gun rather than a shootable gun and can be sold to C & R holders, even if it is a modern gun. Colt and Winchester (USRA) have dozens of modern guns listed this way. Individuals can also request ATF make a determination on a gun in which its value is in its design, ownership, or other charistics. For example two Colt SAAs were presented to actor Chuck Conners with SN CC1 and CC2 and are listed as C & R guns with ATF. A list of C & R guns ia available as a booklet from ATF.
The first page in the booklet contains a letter from the ATF Director clearly stating the ATF understanding that gun collecting is a very important part of preserving our country's heritage and ATF promotes private ownership of guns, while trying to stop the usage of guns in crimes. Bob
 
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