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I see no problem - if deemed reasonable by capable shooters.
LEOs have go thru quals, one has to qualify to get an auto license and one has to qualify to prescribe meds. So it doesn’t seem to be a big deal to me.
So, I take it you are for gun control?
Does “shall not be infringed” sound familiar to you?
A very slippery slope indeed.
Do we ask where you stand on military style rifles too?
 

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Hah!!!
I wonder if you’d feel the same if you took a bullet from a negligent discharge from a clown that just exercised his right but didn’t know how to handle the gun??
Several problems with this reasoning.
First, passing the test that only Ray Charles would fail doesn’t really ascertain that a person has a sound gun handling. To get there, you now have to require more than just an idiotic, from technical standpoint, test.
Second, a "shooting proficiency mandate" also means that Ray Charles (using name as a figure of speech), who's neither felon nor mentally ill, doesn't get to CCW under mandatory test conditions. Besides constitutional issues, Mr Charles can simply claim that he would never attempt anything other than a contact shot. Now what?

It is a tough subject, I understand where you're coming from and I used to share your position. Thinking through it, I changed my mind.
 

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Not gonna get into the rights part of it because its pointless but fact of the matter is if you cant put 21 out of 30 in a full size silhouette at 7 yards you shouldnt be packing a gun weather you have a right to or not.
Show me Im wrong!
 

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The lawful ability to carry a concealed weapon may vary from state to state. When the laws changed to "right to carry concealed" here in Florida in 1988, I immediately applied for my concealed weapon permit. A concealed weapon permit applies not only to carrying a handgun concealed, but knives with a blade longer than 3" or even brass knuckles. I don't believe there is a requirement to shoot "any ammo" to get a concealed weapon permit in FLA:
  • You must be 21 years of age or older.
  • You must be able to demonstrate competency with a firearm.
  • Unless you are serving overseas in the United States Armed Forces, you must currently reside in the United States and be a U.S. citizen or deemed a lawful permanent resident alien by Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. If you are serving overseas in the U.S. Armed Forces, submit a copy of your deployment documentation with your application. Those who are Resident Aliens must provide a valid Permanent Resident Alien card.
For me, I was able to demonstrate competency with a firearm by sending in my NRA Bullseye card which at that time showed I had an Expert rating..... Military personnel in FLA can send in proof that they are currently serving or have served, since firearms training is required. I never had to fire a shot, nor does state law make any demands to force you to shoot a handgun.....but you do have to prove "proficiency." At one time, I was an NRA Firearms instructor, and held classes for basic pistol marksmanship. Each student received a document that stated the date, my NRA instructor number, and their name that showed they attended and passed the course. The 8 hour class did have live fire training, and met all the requirements for each student to apply and obtain a concealed weapon permit. State laws to legally obtain a permit for a concealed weapon my vary from state to state. Some states allow "open carry" so no permit is required.... In FLA, open carry of a firearm is legal when hunting.....unless the laws have changed..... I highly recommend researching your state laws to know what is or isn't legal about concealed carry for any weapon.....I try to review the FLA statutes regarding carrying a concealed weapon, and the use of lethal force, at least once every year. (y)
 

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So, I take it you are for gun control?
Does “shall not be infringed” sound familiar to you?
A very slippery slope indeed.
Do we ask where you stand on military style rifles too?
You take is incorrect.
As long as my heart is beating, my mind is alive and my mouth works the words that express my feelings and position come out of my mouth. Anyone who knows me from this forum or personally knows that what you said of my position is totally false.
What you surmise is incorrect and you shouldn’t be speaking for me! Your line of reasoning is incorrect.
You began with an attack - and it appears to me that a conversation cannot work unless I accept your incorrect charges - which I don’t.
Therefore, I have nothing to say to you further.
 

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PA is pretty simple. Show up, background check, leave with CCP.
What an awful policy, and it must present a huge detriment to public safety in PA.

There must be blood running in the streets due the lack of official carry permit shooting qualification standards for those carrying concealed firearms, bodies lying everywhere, and a flood of articles in the media that reflect the resultant bloodbath. :eek:
 

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Nonsense.

The State of Florida has no such requirement in order to be issued a concealed firearms and weapons permit.
Try getting the CCW license at GS Warriors at Doral Florida, the instructor and owner won't let an AH that can't shoot with a CCW, license from him, and I applaud his commitment to safety.
 

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Try getting the CCW license at GS Warriors at Doral Florida, the instructor and owner won't let an AH that can't shoot with a CCW, license from him, and I applaud his commitment to safety.
As you've just confirmed, your earlier assertion regarding the state of Florida having a shooting qualification standard to obtain a Florida concealed firearms and weapons license remains totally incorrect.

I applaud you for correcting the misinformation you've previously provided when you incorrectly contradicted me earlier.
 

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Perhaps one way to both protect the 2nd Amendment and increase new CC competence and safety would be to offer free basic firearm safety and use. Not necessarily teaching states' different CC rules and requirements but safe handling and storage of newly purchased firearms. Too many tragic "accidents" happen. One statement I remember, even after shooting since I was in elementary school, was when my CC class instructor, a SWAT member, reminded us that our kids know where we keep or hide our weapons.

It will never be budgeted, of course, and even with the 50K peopler who are killed yearly in auto accidents, and other than in some High Schools, no one provides free driver training. Just one of those random thoughts one has with a first cup of morning coffee.

NV
 

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Still more excellent posts added overnight.

I doubt that any of us want to see totally incompetent persons with very low intelligence, incapable of good judgement, and no capability to hit a silhouette three yards in front carrying guns around in public.

But a legal qualification standard, something set up under a leftist, Dem government (local, state, or federal), surely cannot be right.

AndyC's reply (#38) particularly caught my attention. We cannot allow leftists to enter into the realm of defining 2A rights.

The slope gets very slippery very fast....
 

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Didn't the old "Utah class" require a qualifying score? Or was that just KY?

We used the Utah class at that time, and there was a qualifying shoot with a Sheriff's deputy at the end. I don't know if that was something KY tacked on at that time ('99), but they've since gone to Constitutional carry... so I guess it doesn't matter anymore.
 

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Hah!!!
I wonder if you’d feel the same if you took a bullet from a negligent discharge from a clown that just exercised his right but didn’t know how to handle the gun??
Let's all start doing the PD quals instead...

No disrespect meant to LEO's but the stats were on the google search results.

Inspector Kevin Maloney, who headed up the NYPD unit that oversees police-involved shootings, told the New York Daily News in December 2017 that the NYPD fired a record low number of rounds that year. The department’s hit ratio also exceeded those in the 2008 Rand study in 2017.

NYPD cops fired 170 shots and hit their targets 75 times, for a hit ratio of 44 percent for the year, as of Dec. 21, 2017. In 2016, police landed 107 of a total 304 shots fired, a hit ratio of roughly 35 percent. Again, Watts said the hit rate was less than 30 percent.

LAPD has a hit rate of 48 percent (in 2016). That is likely at the high end of hit rates," said Gregory Ridgeway, an associate professor of criminology and statistics at the University of Pennsylvania. "Their number of rounds per incident is also way down in the last five years."

In a 2006 study, Michael D. White, a criminology professor at Arizona State University, provided a roundup of hit ratio data from various jurisdictions and timeframes. (This data is quite old but we provide to give a broader cross-section of jurisdictions.)


JURISDICTIONHIT RATIOTIMEFRAME
155 Michigan police departments27%1976 to 1981
New York Police Department26%1987

New York Police Department23%1990
Los Angeles Police Department56%1970s
Los Angeles Police Department28%1980 to 1988
Metro-Dade, Florida31%January 1984 - June 1988
Memphis25%1991
 

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About ten years ago the missus decides she wants her concealed carry license so I decided to tag along because I heard there is some shooting involved. The class was around twenty five persons, mostly females without their husbands along. I am seventy plus and one eldery lady , older than me, brought one of those little 22 that fit on a belt buckle to qualify with. Several of the other ladies had brand new unfired sub compact automatics to use. I think their husbands handed them to them when the left for the class and said honey here is your brand new carry piece. Several had no idea at all which end the bullet comes out of let alone how to safely run their gun. We go to the shooting range after class and its a regular dog and pony show. I think the qualification shooting was a good thing for those just learning how to shoot safely.
Now we have constitutional carry with no license needed. I cannot help to think about who is carrying a brand new gun and has no clue how to properly run one. That is scary to me.
With the opponents saying blood will be stirrup deep in the streets crowd, was the main objection presented. Guess what they were wrong again. No blood on the streets as they had hoped. Now anyone, who can legally own a firearm, can carry concealed without a permit. no training at all.
That is kinda scary too with new gun owners now able to carry without any kind of training. So what are we to do.

Lucky

Lucky
 

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Nothing political but sharing my experience on the realm of qualifications:

1. When I took my Florida state CCW class & test it was basic as basic but still helpful to some. Even the handgun safety rules seemed to be alien to some of the participants. When it was time for shooting qualification - the NRA instructor told me he wasn't judging on my marksmanship but rather how I followed the safety rules from the time I picked up the gun, loaded the magazine, fired at the target and returned the weapon at the table. My marksmanship at that time was "acceptable" for me as I kept it inside a 10" target paper but not comparable to my groupings now. So I take it as a subjective consideration by the instructor.

2. As a back-up job I took the armed security officer (G) course. That required a shooting score of 168/240 at 3,7,10 and 15 yards. Liability and marksmanship (at some level) was stressed.

What I take from all of these was I learned something - I learned that every instructor is different and based on their experience a class can be boring or engaging. They all center on self-defense, State laws and while doing so, keeping in mind civil liabilities.
 

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About ten years ago the missus decides she wants her concealed carry license so I decided to tag along because I heard there is some shooting involved. The class was around twenty five persons, mostly females without their husbands along. I am seventy plus and one eldery lady , older than me, brought one of those little 22 that fit on a belt buckle to qualify with. Several of the other ladies had brand new unfired sub compact automatics to use. I think their husbands handed them to them when the left for the class and said honey here is your brand new carry piece. Several had no idea at all which end the bullet comes out of let alone how to safely run their gun. We go to the shooting range after class and its a regular dog and pony show. I think the qualification shooting was a good thing for those just learning how to shoot safely.
Now we have constitutional carry with no license needed. I cannot help to think about who is carrying a brand new gun and has no clue how to properly run one. That is scary to me.
With the opponents saying blood will be stirrup deep in the streets crowd, was the main objection presented. Guess what they were wrong again. No blood on the streets as they had hoped. Now anyone, who can legally own a firearm, can carry concealed without a permit. no training at all.
That is kinda scary too with new gun owners now able to carry without any kind of training. So what are we to do.

Lucky

Lucky
What we are to do is to embrace our rights and freedoms, and stop living in fear of dire predictions that, as experience has clearly proven time and again, haven’t come to pass.

No American should demand that others live under the boot of their own fear; nor should folks be forced to.
 

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What we are to do is to embrace our rights and freedoms, and stop living in fear of dire predictions that, as experience has clearly proven time and again, haven’t come to pass.

No American should demand that others live under the boot of their own fear; nor should folks be forced to.
My sentiments exactly!
 

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If "literacy tests" were unconstitutional for the exercise of someone's voting rights, what makes anyone think that a "proficiency test" to exercise your right to carry a gun is any less unconstitutional?
 

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Hah!!!
I wonder if you’d feel the same if you took a bullet from a negligent discharge from a clown that just exercised his right but didn’t know how to handle the gun??
So contrary to your previous assertion in which you falsely stated that you “support constitutional carry” you’ve now demonstrated that you were, in fact, being disingenuous since you clearly do not.

Thanks for the clarification.

In response to your ridiculous straw man question, let me state for the record that I never mind taking any bullets from negligent discharges from clowns that just exercised their rights but didn’t know how to handle their guns, which in fact, is unfortunately, an extremely regular, and almost daily occurrence made even worse since I go to the range to shoot several times each week.

My response to those clowns is always “ stop shooting me you clown and please begin shooting someone else for a while”.

Seriously, it happens all the time and I really don’t mind at all, so long as they’re only shooting 9mm and not .45 ACP, in which case I rebuke them far more sternly since being shot with .45 ACP definitely hurts a lot more.

The other message I’ve got for the clowns with evil black semiautomatic rifles and high capacity pistols, is that nobody needs more than 2 rounds to kill a deer; or more than six rounds with which to defend themselves.
 

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Never had to take a rest for a permit. Had to take a class in 1 state, and have seen some classes include range time, but not as a state requirement.
 
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