[fal_shooter]

This is probably a stupid question but it won't be a first for me. I ask lots of stupid questions.

Can you leave the extra parts out of the Series II? Parts like the firing pin block? Would it still work? Would you need to leave anything else out?

Now before anyone gets excited I must say I am not anti Series II. I don't know enough about the issue to get excited either way and will shoot mine stock unless I have a problem. I have a Series I stainless match that works flawlessly. I plan on getting a Tactical Custom II soon so I thought I would ask this question. From what I can see from the pictures all of the internal parts look standard except for the extra parts so -- my first question is do you need the extra part?. My second question is -- How does the firing pin block work (the mechanics not opinions )? I guess my third question is -- Do the new production Series II guns have a problem or was that a early production issue (think M-16)?

Thanks guys. I am just trying to get up to speed on Series II issues and don't know enough yet to do an informative search.

 

[AFMan]

In operation, whenever you depress the grip safety, it lifts the "push rod" in the frame, which pushes the firing pin block, in the slide, up and clear of the firing pin.

There are three additional parts in a series II. The firing pin block and spring located in the slide (held in place by the rear sight) and the "push rod" located in the frame (held in place by the sear pin).

You can remove all three pars with no detrimental effects on the pistol's operation, with the obvious exception that it no longer has a firing pin safety.

I have four Series II Target models and have removed the series II parts from each.

 

[fal_shooter]

OK another stupid question.

If that is all there is to converting a series II to a series I then what are people complaining about? If it is that easy to fix the "problem" I don't see where anyone has any reason to complain. I think it is great that Kimber tried to improve the 1911 AND left you with a way to change it back if you did not like their "improvements".

I guess I am getting old. My dad always told me I have no right to complain about a problem that is in my power to fix. Silly me, I believed him.

 

[BGPD]

Well, some people like myself are getting old and senile and start to worry about nonsense like guns with no firing pin safeties. So, after carrying 1911s without them worryfree for over 30 years I decide to get a Kimber Tactical Custom II. Once I learned to use the "correct" mags and followers and to keep my big fat hands away from the grip safety during disassembly/assembly I am quite content with my purchase and my mind is again at peace.

 

[AZ Husker]

It is easy to remove the parts, and Kimber seems to have worked the bugs out anyway. I just don't want the FPS, and I don't want the empty tunnels through the frame and slide if they're removed.

 

[BrianN]

Another question- would removing these parts be "prudent" on a carry gun? In the event that you had to use it.....

? -B

 

[Methos]

Another option is to just replace the firing pin with a series 70 type firing pin. This will effectively defeat the series II FPS completely and not leave empty holes to get gummed up with gunk. It's the cheapest and easiest fix, $8.95 for a Wilson Bulletproof firing pin and about a minute to swap out.

As for the legalities there is no real problem with it as the only thing the FPS does is keep the gun from accidently discharging if it's dropped on it's muzzle. All the lawyers I've talked to generally agree that a shooting is either 'good' or 'bad' on it's own merits and the removal of that type of safety would not play into any litigation. Now, if you DROPPED the gun, it went off and killed someone, that would be a different animal.

It's a tough call. I disabled mine with previously mentioned method with no problems of any kind. It's a personal call.

Methos

 

[hjk]

BrianN,

This point has been hotly debated. One side contends that if one shoots in self defense, the removal of the FPS would be irrelevant because the firing of the pistol was, by definition, intentional. The other side contends that if criminal charges were brought against the shooter, a zealous prosecutor would attempt to argue that the removal of the FPS somehow demonstrates a criminal intent or eagerness to shoot another person or a reckless disregard for human life. Irrespective of which side of the argument one chooses to believe, removal of the FPS is going to make one's lawyer's job that much harder, and could mean mean the necessity of filing an expensive appeal if things go the wrong way in the trial court, which can easily happen.
Another point to consider is the possibility of an accidental discharge, often refered to as a negligent discharge, resulting in injury or death to another person. Here, the removal of an FPS could pose a serious problem. Of course it would have to be proved that the discharge could have been prevented by the FPS, but expert witnesses can be found to support almost any argument.
Accordingly, all things considered, I think that it is unwise to remove or disable an FPS. The better course of action would be to simply purchase a gun that is manufactured without an FPS.

 

[trask]

I like hjk's reasoning, and he's covered the bases. Guess now you make your bed and lay in it.

 

[KillitnGrillit]

All I did was replace the old firing pin and firing pin spring with a series 70 STI Titanium firing pin and a Wolff extra power firing pin spring,thus bye passing the series II parts ,Works great,no problems at all,I also changed the extractor to a Wilson Bullet proof extractor,and of course bought an extra set of Cocobolo rosewood grips,all this on my Kimber TLE.

 

[Brooklyn South]

FWIW

From what I have read here, the rear sight is not the easiest thing to remove and replace. What KillitnGrillit did is basically what I think Wilson Combat does to make their blasters CA compliant.

I wonder how far you would have to drop a factory new pre-series II Kimber before it would fire?

Good shooting!

 

[ajacobs]

While I understand that replacing the firing pin in effect diables the saftey isn't a large portions of the malfuntions related to the series II due to the push rod failing to retract thereby preventing the slide returning to battery. This of course would not be solved by the firing pin.

 

[AFMan]

ajacobs,

True, BUT, if you have replaced the firing pin with one that doesn't allow the firing pin block to lower, the push rod can be removed from the frame too, as it will not be needed.

The firing pin block will be exerting constant pressure and rubbing on the firing pin. The FPS plunger spring is prettty light, so the pressure won't be excessive, but still a source of friction in the firing pin's travel.

I simply prefer to remove all the parts, and with them, all the worry.

 

[ajacobs]

I too have removed all of the parts for sake of simplicity. I only have 1 seriesII though.

So is the general opinion to either
1. remove all the parts
or
2 replace the firing pin and remove the push rod

but don't just replace the firing pin, correct?

 

[Dave T]

I think the best solution would be for Kimber to offer their first series as an option, just as Colt has with the re-introduction of the so called Series 70. If a company as screwed up (market share wise) as Colt can do it, the leading producer of 1911s (Kimber) could certainly do it.