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Discussion Starter #1
I have the bushmaster M4 with the A2 handguard and I'm considering the Cav Arms OKO reflex sight, but dont know which mounting option to go with.



Is it better to mount the optics to the carry handle
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or in the forward postion on a Samco M33 handguard.



Is it harder to zero carry handle optics due to the height. The purpose of the optics is faster acquisition, plinking and everything. Putting a dot on someones head is easier than lining up front and rear sights
 

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IMO, the best way to mount that red dot or any red dot for that matter on your AR is with a carry handle mount that allows you to co-witness the iron sights with the red dot. This is an ARM mount but there are less expensive copies.


The Fobus handguards will not keep your optic zeroed. If you want a handguard mount you should be looking at the ARMS SIR, they make one for A2's or a KAC RASII. Both freefloat the barrel and are excellent for mounting optics.
 

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Either on the carry handle or a "gooseneck" mount like Reddevil posted is the way to go.

I personally don't like mounting them on the carry handle, as it puts the scope higher than I like. I had an ARMS 39 like Reddevil's pic, and it was a rock-solid mount. There are a couple of quality alternatives, but I cannot recall the brands at the moment.

If you want to try mounting it on the carry handle, I have a cheapo mount you can have. If you don't like it, you are not out any thing.

[email protected]
 

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The Gooseneck style mounts would also afford you a slight bit more protection against bumps as opposed to mounting it high.



Above is the same ARMS #39A2 mount. I have found however that a lot of the Russian sights were not intended to cowitness iron sights. Thus in one way or another there is or can be some high points that obscuse the irons rendering them useless.

You might want to check into the Bernie/Cooley adjustable mount which uses a camming action of some sort the raise of lower the rail hieght.

There are a number of others as well.

Good Luck

Karsten
 

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IMO i would use a dogleg mount such as the arms mount...make sure its see through. then you have your choice of on top of the handle or just above the handguard. Im going one step further in my planning of a "tactical" ar15 (i swore i would never build one), flat top with a 4 rail front handguard...that will give me a multitudeof choices where to mount a red dot (i was looking at the ATN version of that scope too)
 

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NJKimber,

If I may add, the ATN Ultra Sight is another sight that is this case will back the irons useless. I had one and wanted so badly to use it that I fiddled around with 6 different configurations of AR's I had at the time.

The only place it was really usefull was when used a a flat top with out any sights and I don't like that idea.

The sight now rest on top of a Carbon 15 pistol where it is working out great for a buddy.

If you are thinking of a flat top upper and RAS HG you mihgt want to look into the GG&G HG as it is about $125.00 less than the KAC.

Then Midway USA has a Holosight on sale for $224 in there current catalog which will co witness perfectly.



Just letting you know what I found out before you spend the money to learn the same thing......The Ultra Sights are a tough resale even if NIB I found out.

Karsten
 

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Karsten said:
NJKimber,

If I may add, the ATN Ultra Sight is another sight that is this case will back the irons useless. I had one and wanted so badly to use it that I fiddled around with 6 different configurations of AR's I had at the time.

The only place it was really usefull was when used a a flat top with out any sights and I don't like that idea.

The sight now rest on top of a Carbon 15 pistol where it is working out great for a buddy.

If you are thinking of a flat top upper and RAS HG you mihgt want to look into the GG&G HG as it is about $125.00 less than the KAC.

Then Midway USA has a Holosight on sale for $224 in there current catalog which will co witness perfectly.



Just letting you know what I found out before you spend the money to learn the same thing......The Ultra Sights are a tough resale even if NIB I found out.

Karsten
thank you...the front 4 rail grip will be whatever bushmaster or RRA supply with their guns...hehe...ill look into other sights...what other than the bushnell holo will cowitnesswell on a flat top?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The bi-level rail, it appears that the front end is suspended over the handguard. Because it hangs unsupported, is there any play, or wobble after extended shooting sessions. Will I need to adjust it constantly to maintain zero, or once everything is installed can I just forget about it over long periods.

This is the C-More Scout system which has the rail and optics for $320 roughly. Does anyone have experiance with their products, or this package?
 

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NJKimber,

As to your question of what else is available that will cowitness on a flat top.

BSA 40MM Red Dot (temp sight to get you range time)
BSA 30MM Red Dot with Spacer (again inclined to temp service)
Tasco or Burris Red Dot in the 30-35 MM with the correct rings
EOTech Holosight (mine is a 551 Model pic'd above)
Aimpoint with the correct mount/spacer combo.
Reflex but you will need a mounting plate and poss spacer
Colt C-More (not sure how it mounts)
ACOG if you have the fundage

The deal with the ATN Ultra Sight is the adjustment knob sticks up and blocks your line of line from using irons at all.

VB,

As for the C-More and rail I have seen it but never used it. I would dare say it would be a better mount than a $40.00 alloy mount with single screw attatchment.

As for the ARMS #39a2 it wont work with a removable carry handle just as a note.

It not only has the bolt/thumb wheel attatchment through the carry handle but also a yoke which holds it firmly forward at the point the Gooseneck meets the front of the carry handle.

Again, this is just my observations....having been there and done it all before only to find this or that didn't work. Then you end up with a stack of parts you end up giving away here and there.

Karsten
 

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you think an aimpoint M2 would work with the proper mount?
 

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Reddevil said:
IMO, the best way to mount that red dot or any red dot for that matter on your AR is with a carry handle mount that allows you to co-witness the iron sights with the red dot. This is an ARM mount but there are less expensive copies.


The Fobus handguards will not keep your optic zeroed. If you want a handguard mount you should be looking at the ARMS SIR, they make one for A2's or a KAC RASII. Both freefloat the barrel and are excellent for mounting optics.
Yep, use this one.
 

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As the others have mentioned, the gooseneck mounts are the way to go if you have a fixed carry handle. If you mount on top of the handle, you'll exacerbate the line of sight/point of impact problems.

If you want to mount on a handguard rail, you'll need to get one of the more rugged and rigid rails handguards that freefloat the barrel. The Fobus unit is not going to give you good results. It's a much better choice for inexpensive mounting of flashlights and forward grips.

As far as the gooseneck mounts go, I think Dillon sells one that is the right height for the OKO sight to cowitness with the irons properly. Another choice would be the Benny Cooley version, which allows you to adjust the height of the mount.
 

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I have heard nothing but bad things about the C-MORE. My buddy returned his because of a wandering zero, avoid at all costs. I bought a gooseneck from CDNN and had to cut it in half and TIG in a piece of aluminum to still be alble to use my iron sights. It's not hard, but its the only way I could get my Optima to work.
 

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JRJ said:
I have heard nothing but bad things about the C-MORE. My buddy returned his because of a wandering zero, avoid at all costs. I bought a gooseneck from CDNN and had to cut it in half and TIG in a piece of aluminum to still be alble to use my iron sights. It's not hard, but its the only way I could get my Optima to work.
why did u have to cut the mount? who made the mount?
 

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variablebinary said:
The bi-level rail, it appears that the front end is suspended over the handguard. Because it hangs unsupported, is there any play, or wobble after extended shooting sessions. Will I need to adjust it constantly to maintain zero, or once everything is installed can I just forget about it over long periods.

This is the C-More Scout system which has the rail and optics for $320 roughly. Does anyone have experiance with their products, or this package?
The FBI firearms coordinator here in Dallas said their office quit using the C-more sights for 2 reasons. 1, and I don't know the proper terms to use, but basically the sight adjustment screws did not have click adjustments, but rather acted like a normal screw, thus vibration from firing the weapon would make the adjustments move. 2, they had problems with exteme temperature ranges throwing the sights off. I believe they went to the EOTech system. I use the Bushnell Hotosite, same basically as EOtech, and love it.
 

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Pass on the C-more. Too pricey for the flaws previously mentioned. You can get an Aimpoint set up for about the same money.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Tapco and CDNN?

JRJ

Tapco and CDNN both have bi-level rails for a pretty good price. How is the stability and quality on the CDNN model? I'm not exactly sure why you had to cut it though...
 

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I had to cut it because you could'nt see the front sight post through the optics. It was the same with the EOTech and even the BSA sights. It would'nt allow the sight to be mounted low enough. It's sturdy as hell though, I had it chucked in a vice and stood on the forward section of the mount and it did'nt give. I figured if it held 223 lbs I would have a hard time knocking it out of line.

I don't know if the other rails allow a low enough mount to still see the FSP, but I would check unless you are handy with a TIG setup. I saved a few bucks, but had to spend about 45 minutes of my time to get it to work.
 

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This is my PreBan Bushy with ARMS #39a2 and a BSA 30MM Red Dot.........It with cowitness without any problem.



Again, this boils down to the right combination of equipment.

The Tapco, CDNN, CTD $40.00 rail (In my opinion) was more so intended for the gadget guys to mount lasers and lights on the Vertical Mini Rails and hit or miss on a forward mounts sight.

I had one and gave it to someone as I didn't need it...I ran across it in a trade package or something.

I will say this for the mount....it will stay in place better than it's Chi Com Cousin, the $40.00 M14/M1a mount....been down that road too.

I posted this somewhere else...I forgot where :confused:

But with the ARMS #39A2 (you will never have to upgrade) an Aimpoint will work with the correct spacer, a BSA 30MM will work while you save your pennies, a Tasco 30MM with correct rings will work (about $125 more than a BSA) then back up top a Reflex with the correct mount....you are back to 5 bills there abouts.

Karsten
 

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The TAPCO, CDNN, CTD, Galati forward mount is made by Leapers (in China).

It's a very rugged piece of gear, although it may not be as refined as some of the more expensive mounts.

I do know that:

1. It puts a Tasco PDP5CMP red dot at exactly the right height

2. As JRJ mentioned, it does crowd the sight picture for the irons (but I suspect some or most of the others do as well). My solution was to use the small aperture on the rear ... it helps your eye focus on the front sight. With the larger aperture, you see to much clutter. Since the irons are just for "emergencies," it's not that big of a deal
 
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