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1302 Views 16 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  FreeAmerican
I'm looking at getting a sub-compact pistol for Concealed Carry and was wondering what suggestions people have. I was thinking along the lines of either Para's Warthog or possibly Kimber's Ultra Raptor II. I have experience with Kimbers and know that they are of excellent quality, but I haven't had much to do with Paras. Reliability, Accuracy, Fit and Finish? What do you think?
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Many people say that Kimbers are great. I've seen nothing but problems with them. Out of 5 Kimbers I've been around, 4 of them broke. All 4 had to be sent back to Kimber. One had no problems at all.

I say Kahr K40 .40S&W

If you like 1911s and have $...go for the Kobra Carry $2k+
 

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Been carrying a Kimber Ultra Carry II for about 5 years now. It's broken 3 times, but Kimber has been good about fixing it. It's generally reliable when parts aren't falling off.

That said, if I had it to do over, I might just opt for a 4" 1911 with officers length grip. The extra inch in length is easy to conceal, and the increase in reliability should be worth it.

If you do go with a kimber, be good about changing the recoil spring and mag springs. I let mine go too long and I suspect that some of my problems were due to that.
 

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Short and fat

does not neccesarily make a good carry choice.
I don't know about the Kimber offhand but believe the Para is a double/stagger stack mag. Wider grip is harder for me to hide than a longer barrel. If I was replacing my Commander I would get a short gripped single stack with a 5 inch barrel.
Mike
 

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See if you can borrow someone's full size and handle/carry that for a week or so. I have carried an Ultra, a double stack, and now carry a full size full time. I would highly recommend that you stay away from either the Warthog or Ultra of any kind unless you can put enough ammo and/or time into it to make it reliable. I know that there are those here that have had great luck with them and others (like myself) that have suffered through problems with Paras and Kimbers that wanted to use them for CCW. I had my UCII (internal extractor) back at Kimber 3 times for FTF and FTE, frame damage from hollow points and so on, before giving up on them and fixing it myself. Then started shooting full size 1911s more often and the UC went down the road. I fully believe that a full size is no more difficult or inconvenient to carry than a pint size. An 8 round mag with good ammo and one spare on your belt will beat any hi-cap "brick" for carry convenience anyday. There are very few semi-auto pistols that offer the flat carry profile and ballistics of the 1911 platform. Having said that, I also carry a BHP on a regular basis and it is almost as comfortable to carry as the 1911. If I were after a hi-cap pistol, it would be the BHP or maybe a CZ. I am not a great fan of the hi-cap .45s or Para and Kimber in particular. I would do a search on Ultra Carry specifically and Kimber in general here on the forum. Then do a search on Warthog. Then make up your own mind. Good luck on the selection.

Deez.
 

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Mike Echo said:
does not neccesarily make a good carry choice.
I don't know about the Kimber offhand but believe the Para is a double/stagger stack mag. Wider grip is harder for me to hide than a longer barrel. If I was replacing my Commander I would get a short gripped single stack with a 5 inch barrel.
Mike
Paras come in single and double stack, but the double stack is not too wide to carry. It will feel wider bcz of the grip shape, but the overall width is damn near the same as a regular single stack 1911. Either way, there are countless other double stack guns that are easily concealed every day all over the world (HK, Sig, Glock, CZ, Hi Power, etc.). I would never disqualify a Para hi-cap as hard to conceal. Heck, I've carried a P14-45 (full size hi-cap with 5" bbl) for years.

Paras are extremely reliable and fantastic weapons. I rate them as good as any Glock, HK or Sig.
 

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I'm curious, why do a lot of people look for a sub-compact as a concealed carry option? Why won't a full size or a compact gun meet your needs? What is so endearing about a sub-compact that makes you (or anyone else) want to strap one on opposed to a full size gun. Are you planning on using it for deep concealment or as a secondary piece or will it be your primary concealed carry?
 

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Tim K said:
That said, if I had it to do over, I might just opt for a 4" 1911 with officers length grip. The extra inch in length is easy to conceal, and the increase in reliability should be worth it.
Is someone making this as a factory weapon?

I just had this very thing built but in 10mm. Nowlin Guns assembled it for me. I carried it for the first time today and couldn't be happier. At one point I had to check to see if it was still there! Seems like the perfect size choice for a carry gun. I was carrying a government sized 1911 previously and it's amazing the difference the shorter slide and frame make. Just my 2 cents....
 

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.45 in a subcompact

Personally, I don't like to go smaller than a compact pistol (3.5 to 4.0 inch barrel, 3-finger grip) when shooting .45 or .40 calibers. I find it a little difficult to control a subcompact in these two calibers, and don't find a compact that much harder to conceal. For a subcompact pistol I would tend to favor 9mm, and would look at something like a polymer framed Kahr.

If you are willing to go with a compact in .45, I'd recommend the Kimber Pro series with 4 inch barrel and slimline grip panels. This gun is 0.9 inches thick in the slide, and about 1.0 inches wide in the grip, so it conceals easily in the right holster. I have the CDP Pro and it has been quite reliable.

My other favorite compact CCW gun is the H&K USP 40 compact, which is a little wider than the Kimber above (1.14 inches in the slide and 1.1 inches in the grip), but is shorter in length and height than the Kimber, and weighs 4 ounces less when empty. The USP has been reliable and accurate for me.
 

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deezulsmoke said:
Did you even read the thread you linked us to??

Here are some highlights:


At any rate, this type of failure is not limited to any one manufacturer. Below are some links to show that it can happen to any pistol, given the proper set of circumstances.

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=14786&start=0

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=5921&highlight=Broken+Slide

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=63634&highlight=springfield+broken+slide

From a Mod on that site:
"You guys should know of what you speak before you open your collective mouths.

There was a WIDELY circulated picture all over the gun forums over a year ago, of a Springfield that broke in EXACTLY the same place.

So I guess all you guys who have stroked Para off your list, better do the same with Springers.

Lots of speculation and mis-information going on here...."


From another contributor:
"Just as a matter of interest Browning went to cast frames BECAUSE they found that forged frames would not stand up to the .40 round. The cast frames were and are stronger. Ask Mr. Camp! Were there gunsmiths before cast and MIM parts? If so what on earth did they do with all their spare time?"




Hardly a conviction on Para guns IMO. Now, I don't shoot +P in 45ACP bcz I think it's a waste - 230gr JHPs are plenty for me, but I think this type of failure is a one in a million type of event. Hardly enough to make me worry about mine.
 

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It is funny, I asked this same question some time ago then posted about my frustration about finding a 1911 that fit the bill. Right now there are 2 threads on this subject. I love the full size, Commander and CCO 1911s. You might want to see if you can get away with one of these. I love the Commander but the grip is what is so hard to hide. The CCO (light weight officer grip and commander slide) is the best of both worlds. Kimber and Para(I think) make something like it. See if they might fit what you want.

Now to each his own, but when it comes to a compact 45 acp, I went with a Glock 36. As of this week 2000 rounds, not a single hickup what so ever. It weighs less loaded than my unloaded CCO (remember the CCO is a lightweight frame) and roughly the same size as an Officer 1911 with a 3.7 in barrel. It is not pretty and really is just a tool, but it gets the job done.

I wish you luck. In the end you need to get what fits you and your lifestyle. So think about what it will be like to carry when you make your choice. Cause you know, really packing is a pain in the ass.
 

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Yes, I read them and came to my own conclusions. FN cast parts are not Para cast parts. Caspian cast parts are not Para cast parts. The para that I owned had too many "investment cast" parts for my liking. Trigger, barrel bushing, link pin, hammer, plastic mag release, and so on. I do not nor will I ever pretend to be an expert on this subject. I just read and draw my own conclusions from the experience of others and my own experience. When I have disassembled the Para's that I owned and the Paras of others, they just don't impress me with the quality vs. money spent that other makers 1911s provide. If you like yours, wonderful. As I stated in my first post, use the search, read a lot. Then talk to other people that you trust that know 1911s and spend your money and take your chances.

Deez.

P.S. The mod you mention is known to be very pro Para
 

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Having a Colt CCO that is uber accurate, I will agree to a point, but even the light weight commanders and CCO's do not satisfy the full need of a compact 45 acp. My G-36 is an inch shorter, a half inch less tall, and 6 oz loaded than a unloaded CCO. The 36 hardly reaches below my belt line where the Commander goes almost to my back pocket.
 
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