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Don't want to raise any hackles, but I'm wondering why one would buy a Charles Daly and settle for poor customer service when the weapon itself is merely a re-badged product of Armscor.

No flames, please. I'm just wondering.

Edited by MarkW
Copyrighted photos removed.
 

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I've had expirence with CD customer service, and each time they've treated me right. As far as their product goes, I think its a very good piece with a life time warrenty. I have a feeling in my gut that in the near future CD is going to make some nice changes somehow. Don't know what, and I could be wrong. But I have nothing bad or negative to say about CD. But everyone has their own opinion.
 

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Don't want to raise any hackles, but I'm wondering why one would buy a Charles Daly and settle for poor customer service when the weapon itself is merely a re-badged product of Armscor.

No flames, please. I'm just wondering.



.
old_ironsights: I've got a pretty thick skin, so how about sharing the "poor" customer service experience that you personally had with my company.

I've recently joined a lot of different firearm forums, and have come back to this one, with the intent of getting the real story behind comments such as yours. It is my goal to improve our after-sales service and the more I can learn about past wrongs, the more I can make them right going forward.

Sincerely,
Michael

Edit: Are you aware that Charles Daly 1911's were made by Armscor for many years before Armscor and RIA started putting their name on guns similar to ours?
 

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Michael

I have never owned one of your firearms, have nothing bad to say about your company has I don't pass on second hand opinions often. They often tend to leave out details that could be damaging to oneself. Besides the customer is always right, right? or wrong?.. A man of the retail business myself I have recently taken notice to you and Charles Daly.

Its not often a owner/CEO/CIO/Tech/CSD whatever you may be to take time out of there day to find out what customers are saying and what customers want from there product line. I noticed your company due to your dedication to find out from the common shooter's and the industry professionals want from an M4. Just because you have taken the time to do the research and find out what we want, I will be buying one of your M4's to test and even do a write up to post on the forums my findings.I'm near positive there will be very pleasant.

On topic I'm interested to hear what the OP's agenda is and there bad CS details.

Thank you for your time and dedication to the firearms industry.h

Sincerely,
Robert Miksits.
 

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Michael, your company's reputation for poor customer service - as acknowledged in your own posts - is not of my making, nor that of any customer.

I merely wondered why buyers would tolerate poor customer service to buy a Charles Daly over numerous other weapons manufactured to the exact same specifications, by the same company, in the same facility.
 

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It seems that all three of the different companies pistols that are produced by Armscor are similar in inner workings but the part that one sees are different offerings from all three companies. If a person looks closely enough you can see the differences, smooth wood grips as opposed to checkered wood, or rubber. Parkerized finish as opposed to satin blue or high gloss blue. Armscor builds them all for themselves and other but beauty is in the eye of the "HOLDER", I am completely satisfied with the function and aestetics of my Charles Daly!Haven't (knock on wood) needed any service except for the sale and hope I won't. I'm not a comp shooter just an enthusiast and don't shoot thousands of rounds through one pistol, I do
have others also.All my stuff so far has lasted without repair. Just like any machine take care of them they take care of you.
 

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Michael, your company's reputation for poor customer service - as acknowledged in your own posts - is not of my making, nor that of any customer.

I merely wondered why buyers would tolerate poor customer service to buy a Charles Daly over numerous other weapons manufactured to the exact same specifications, by the same company, in the same facility.
old_ironsights: I believe you misunderstood my post. I do not, and did not "acknowledge" poor customer service on our part. What I said was that "...I've recently joined a lot of different firearm forums, and have come back to this one, with the intent of getting the real story behind comments such as yours. It is my goal to improve our after-sales service and the more I can learn about past wrongs, the more I can make them right going forward."

I am seeking out "real stories" that I can then investigate. If it turns out there was poor customer service in a particular instance, then I wll take appropriate steps to right the wrong. I am not acknowledgeing wrongs carte blanche.

What I'm trying to find out, particularly after reading a post such as yours, is what exactly, specifically, went wrong, if indeed something did go wrong. In this day and age of internet forums, all it takes is one disgruntled consumer to fill these forums with accusations and innuendo. These accusations are then repeated and reposted across the internet until one day you wake up and all of the sudden find that you have a reputation for "poor" customer service.

I am looking for specifics, while you pour more fuel on the fire of such innuendo. It's like the old mantra that if you repeat something often enough, it takes on a truth of its own. Well I'm here to ask for specifics. I stated in my earlier post that "...it is my goal to improve our after sales service." Improving service is just that, 'improving" it. That doesn't mean it was bad before, it just means as it reads, it can be improved. But I can only improve it if I know where it failed someone. General statements about poor service, while couched in a question asking why someone would or would not buy one of our products, is promulgating the innuendo. Your very question tends to reinforce a negative protrayal of our service departent without having any first hand experience with our service department. That is the gist of the difficulty I have with your post.

I keep asking for specific examples of poor customer service from Charles Daly and what I get are either vague generalizations about poor service from people that have no firsthand experience with it, or, as is the case on this forum and many others that I now frequent, I hear from the overwheming majority of posters that they are very satisfied with our products and our service.

So I'm still looking for wrongs to right and I'll continue to clarify rumors and innuendo where I can.

As nick40 rightfully observed, not all of the products coming out of Armscor are exactly the same. Many of the differences are cosmetic, but not all of them. RIA, Armscor, Hi-Standard, the Spartan from STI and Charles Daly are all made on the same equipment at the Armscor factory, but just because they were all built in the same facility, I ask you, what does that prove? A chevrolet may be made in the same factory as a Cadillac. So what? What are we to infer from that piece of information. DO RIA, Hi-Standard, Spartan and Charles Daly all have the same components? Do they all use the same springs, magazines and bushings? Do they all have the same finish, grips and sights? And do the all come with a full "Lifetime Repair Policy" with freight charges in both directions paid for by the respective importer?

And the last point I want to make is that when Armscor first began building 1911's, they were made solely for Charles Daly for many, many years. As a result, any initial problems that Armscor had in production were only detrimental to Charles Daly. As Armscor's production improved over the more recent years, Armscor finally began putting their own name on their own production and putting the RIA name on guns for a company run by the son of Armscors president. Charles Daly suffered through years of sub-standard guns, then two new brands, both related to the factory, reaped the benefits of our hard work improving the guns and dealing with disgruntled consumenrs. So CD has some carryover of consumer memories of guns that don't look or function anything like the guns Armscor is building today. Both Armscor and RIA, (and now STI) end up with a much cleaner historical record selling "the same" 1911's. Charles Daly has a much higher hurdle to overcome because we were the pioneer for those earlier guns.

Again though, I am hear to learn of specific instances of sub-par service from my Customer Service Department and if or when I do, I will take corrective measures, hoping to insure that if there was a real negative experience, it will not be repeated.

If 2% of the guns that passed through our service department resulted in negative experiences, that tells me that 98% of the guns that went through our CS department resulted in a positive experience. In any industry, in any line of work, we typically only here from the 2% that were not happy. And those unhappy ones tell their friend who post on other forums, where sooner or later it's read as the gospel.

Happy customers rarely take the time to write us to tell what a great job we are doing. (Though that appears to be changing right before my eyes. On these forums, happy consumers are coming out into cyberspace to thank us for our good sevice they obtained from us. I am delighted to see this occur.)

I hope after my long winding comments you will better be able to understand what it is I'm doing on these boards,. By the time I'm done I expect Charles Daly will be as well thought of as the best of the best in the fireartms industry, when it comes to the quality of the products we sell and the quality of our after-sales service.

Thank you for listening.

Sincerely,
Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My post concerned a question of mine, not your personal quests on various and sundry forums.

My question, however indirectly, has been answered.
 

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CD Customer Service

Michael,

Since I've only been back into firearms for about 5 years, I really can't speak to earlier customer support issues. I have both a full-size Armscor (Practical) and a CD ECS. I really liked the full size, but wanted something smaller for carry. Since the only ones available from Armscor were the RIA versions and I needed better sights, I ordered a CD a little over a year ago.

When it came in, I couldn't remove the guide rod assembly, it didn't have the hole for holding the compressed spring in place. I called CD and we tried a couple of things over the phone, none of which worked. I sent it back in and had it back in about a week, fixed. I haven't had any issues with it since.

While I obviously would have preferred not having to send it back, I really can't bitch about the service. Problem identified, no arguments, problem fixed. I don't think you can ask for more.

From reading other threads, every manufacturer has issues where occassionally a gun goes out that is not right. Higher price doesn't guarantee a perfect gun, and low price doesn't equal garbage. I've friends who paid 3-5 times what I paid for mine, and they've had problems as well.

From my admittedly limited experience, I can't complain.
 

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My post concerned a question of mine, not your personal quests on various and sundry forums.

My question, however indirectly, has been answered.
Your original and subsequent posts smack of an agenda. Kind of like the liberals who feel that if they say something often enough everyone will believe it's true.

My posts were intended to elicit from you just what that agenda is.

I think my point has been made and yours as well.

And just for the record, even though we like to see our copyrighted photos splashed about the internet, they are usually used with our permission and with an acknowledgemend of, and credit given to, the source.
 

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I've tried to keep this thread pertinent only to my original question, but you've come on as the demanding, defensive apologist, resorting to personal attacks, so I'll reply in kind.

This will be my last contribution to this thread.

Michael you are the CEO who's watched -or not - for over a decade as your company developed a reputation for rude customer service. Your tacit approval exacerbated the problem, and You are the one who's blaming his employees and threatening them on a public forum for your managerial insufficiencies. You are the one who's defensive, resorting to personal attacks to bolster a bruised ego.

The problem at the KBI franchise is an obvious one.
 

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I've tried to keep this thread pertinent only to my original question, but you've come on as the demanding, defensive apologist, resorting to personal attacks, so I'll reply in kind.

This will be my last contribution to this thread.

Michael you are the CEO who's watched -or not - for over a decade as your company developed a reputation for rude customer service. Your tacit approval exacerbated the problem, and You are the one who's blaming his employees and threatening them on a public forum for your managerial insufficiencies. You are the one who's defensive, resorting to personal attacks to bolster a bruised ego.

The problem at the KBI franchise is an obvious one.
Your baiting worked. My comments have been made. A PM is on the way to you regarding your use of our copyrighted work.

I am done with this thread as well.
 

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Mr. Daly

While I was very pleased to see you take the time to come talk to customers about how to make CD better.

You've Completely made a ass out of yourself and your company. You want to talk about bad customer service rumors spreding like wildfire? What about a CEO behaving like a immature prick? How many times will this be posted about?! Carry yourself above flaming comments and taking the "bait" from someone who you know is trying to get you to do so.

I do however see your outrage in people posting flaming comments about your company. The hear say bs about CD is disapointing at times. Someones brothers, Uncles, friend of a friend had 1 bad experience with a CD gun and its posted over and over and over until like you said, it becomes "TRUE." CD does make a fine firearm.

Now you have gone after someone for using a copyrighted picture???

Sir you should stay out of the forums. Do yourself and your company a favor. Take a look at how many times this has been viewed. And you look like a *******. Thats bad for business. Your intentions were great, but you failed when you sunk to someone else's level of stupid.

Pictures are used all the time. Would you come after me if i had that picture on my desktop as a screen saver but i braged non stop about your company? Bet you wouldn't! Pictures are tossed around like cookies at a girl scouts meeting. I have never scene a gun company cry about it. Pictures are worth a 1000 words, correct? No matter what was said by "old_iron" that picture spoke volumes. Beautiful gun! Would love to have it on my hip, would have trusted it to protect myself and family. Until I saw you sink to that "stupid" level as i mentioned above.

Sad part is I was just on YOUR website picking out my new 1911, do to good customer reviews from personal friends. And came hear to do more research on your company's arms. Think i found something i didn't want to...
 
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Well I think that'll just about do it. I was hoping this thread would be beneficial to all involved. But that seems not to be the case.

Thread closed for numerous reason. Mostly grown men who should know better acting like children.

Since this thread is closed I do not expect to see anymore threads started on this subject.

Note to TacShot. Don't for one minute think that joining under another name shields you from us knowing your other screen name. I would suggest that you PM me with a very good explanation as to why you felt your post was necessary.
 
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