1911Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just a personal experience:
Evidently, the trigger screw on my Kimber Eclipse backed out over several hundred rounds ... it was so subtile that I did not notice it until today. A few very fast unplanned 'double.taps' really got my attention. Luckily, I have a 'smith' friend who assisted in the diagnosis. It is now properly adjusted to a point to just allow the hammer to swing without sear interference, set more firmly with locktite,
and all is fine again.
Evidently too great an overtravel blocks the disconnector from functioning.

Regards !!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,948 Posts
My personal belief is that all over-travel screws should be properly adjusted, and then soldered, or at the very least, red Lok-Tited in place. Once adjusted, they should never have to be moved again.

Some remove them all together, and put up with the slight bit of extra over-travel incurred by their removal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,395 Posts
Shane, I totally agree with both your options, but I usually pick the second one (taking it out). Been shooting 45's for 20+ years, and have as yet to see a big difference between an adjustable or non-adjustable trigger if they're set up right in the first place. Good for paper punching, but not comfortable with them in a carry gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,139 Posts
Originally posted by SouthGun:

Evidently, the trigger screw on my Kimber Eclipse backed ... A few very fast unplanned 'double.taps' really got my attention. Luckily, I have a 'smith' friend who assisted in the diagnosis. It is now properly adjusted to a point to just allow the hammer to swing without sear interference, set more firmly with locktite,
and all is fine again.
Evidently too great an overtravel blocks the disconnector from functioning.

Regards !!
Wait a minute. Somethings wrong here. The overtravel screw is set such that pulling the trigger back just releases the hammer and then stops moving back (well you actually set it so it moves back a little bit further). The proper way to set it is such that the sear clears the half cock notch on the hammer.

If you remove the over traval screw, then the trigger just moves back further and results in wasted motion but it won't cause the gun to double. Excessive overtravel also won't "block the disconnector from functioning".

There are ears on some trigger that adjust the initial preset and incorrectly adjusting those can cause the disconnector to not reset but those "ears" don't become "unadjusted" and if they did, it would result in the trigger moving forward not back meaning that the likelyhood of the disconnector not resetting would be reduced.

If your gun was doubling (meaning that you were probably getting hammer follow), it is likely something else. When your friend "fixed" it, did he mess with the sear spring at all?

I had a Kimber years ago that started hammer follow at about 1000 rounds, turns out the sear pin started to bend; probably due to not being heat treated properly. Kimber replaced the pin.

I'd take another look at your gun or at least find out what your friend really did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The trigger back travel was such that the disconnector spade was pushed past and off the sear legs, and jammed the sear in some manner.. Readjustment of the trigger overtravel screw Did remedy the problem. I did the adjustment -

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Yep,Southgun's right.Too much rear travel can cause this.I believe what really happens is the trigger bow pushes the sear leaf off the sear leg,letting it do whatever it wants.
An old trick with non adjustable long triggers was to bevel the rear bottom of the bow to help prevent it.Most triggers won't do this,it's a matter of toleance stacking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hello Rex,
Thanks for that bit of information. I had drawn out the disconnector/sear interaction and could not come up with a reasonable way autofire could be effected - unloading the sear leaf by the extended trigger bow makes sense !! In fact, possibly the disconnector spade itself unloaded the sear leaf..

There maybe only 37 components in this 1911, but there must be 37 million ways that it can be misaligned.. The more I play gunsmith, the more I am amazed it can operate with such reported reliability. I wish to try lightening the trigger pull (again) to the 3.75 lb range ( another long story of failure ), and if successful, 'epoxy in the mainspring housing and peen over the sear and hammer pins so I can't screw with the innards again' <Laugh>

Thanks for the Assistance !



[This message has been edited by SouthGun (edited 10-09-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Damn,another Floridian
I'll be going right by you next weekend for Biketoberfest.
Anyway,anytime.Talking triggers,what's the pull now?3.75 shouldn't be hard.Tune the Dis and sear leaf and it should do it.Just make sure there is still enough tension on each to properly reset them.If you feel like they're too light,replace the mainspring with an 18 or 19# spring.The factory SHOULD be 23#,but find out before you buy one.If you want it crisper,that's another deal.
Actually,if you aren't working a week from this Monday,we might be able to get together since I'm passing by.We can play with guns
.Trigger work is kind of my gig though.E-mail me early next week and I'll know my schedule better.A few more tools in the box aren't a prob.

[This message has been edited by rex (edited 10-09-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Epilog :

Somehow, the more I work with this Project, the more I think the slang 'TriggerJob' is outright slanderous of the work and finesse required to achive a smooth lightweight hammer action.

I made a set of calibrated lead weights and juggled the sear and disconnector spring leaf tensions to about 1.25 lbs each. ( I also tested an STI tri-glide spring but it seemed way too lightweight. It also appears to be stainless and lacked the spring quality of a standard blued steel one. )

The break was still heavy. I carefully felt the trigger motion - the top edge of the disconnector leaf seemed to be dragging. Although I had smoothed and polished each of them, it was insufficient. Back to the stones. I rounded the front of the sear and dis leaves completely back to the rear surface and then buffed them with rouge....

Result : I have a gun with a 3.3 lb trigger pull that did not double nor dry slide hammer drop.
After tenuously firing rounds in pairs and threes for 25, I then upped my confidence to 5 round sets. I shot 50 rounds with reliable performance. I plan to shoot this gun over the weekend without modification to ensure it is operating properly.

I need to adjust the vertical slop in the trigger and bow, but that will wait for another week.

A deep bow to all 'trigger job' Gurus. It ain't all that easy.

( O, I put one 5 shot set in a 1.5" dia grouping, 0.5" from center at 15 yards ... a few other shooters even started watching <big.smile> )

Best To All


[This message has been edited by SouthGun (edited 10-13-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Southgun
Glad to hear she's up and running again.If the prob is definately in the DIS,there ore only 2 things left.You cured a spring friction prob,so it's either the sear pin dragging a rough lower DIS pin hole,or it's binding in the frame hole.The last can usually be diag'd by removing the slide,protecting the hammer from hitting the frame (I use my thumb right in front of the cocked hammer),and measure the pull weight.If it's lower with the slide off,usually it's the DIS binding.I'll talk to you soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Is there a source ( books, video ) for those of us who want to better understand the intricacies of trigger tuning?? Inquiring minds want to know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Hank,there sure is.Kuhnhausen makes 2 manuals that I think are great.Wilson makes a book or 2 on the 45,along with a video series.I wasted money on the video,but one of his books are praised by quite a few here.I think Kuhnhausen explains the workings as simply as possible with a cutaway gun and drawings.These cover the basics though.The really good stuff is learned by doing (and failing) and listening to the guys that know.There are a few here that have forgotten more than we'll ever know about this gun.

PS.Southgun,did you polish the DIS where the spring rides?Can't believe I missed that.

[This message has been edited by rex (edited 10-15-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Hello Rex,

Yes, one of my first excursions inside the Eclipse resluted in a nice jewelers rouge buff-up of all sear and disconnector surfaces, and the spring at contact areas ( Not the sear/hammer interface ) That alone dramatically improved the performance of the guns trigger feel without any parts replacement. I then bagged them up and began the parts changeout.

As I had told you, there appeared to be wear or galling between the trigger bow and disconnector flat. They degraded from their mirror polish to a rough, jerky slip.
I superglued a small brass shim (.005" ) on the trigger bow at the dis contact area and repolished the dis spade flat. ( I am testing the vulnerablity of superglue to lubes, but seems stable so far )

The brass surface makes the trigger takeup feel butter smooth; the break is glass crisp. If it remains this way, I will claim success !

UPDATE : The superglue test sample exposed to the lubes weakened overnight - probably need to try a good epoxy ...

Regards


[This message has been edited by SouthGun (edited 10-16-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,137 Posts
Hang on before you try epoxy.Something sounds weird if it is galling.Let me take a peek at it Monday.Some of those epoxies are serious and won't come off if you want to remove the piece.I'm sure we can get it fixed,and then if you want to replace the trigger sometime you won't have to go through the extra work.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top