1911Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Rifle trials for the successor to the M16 are said to be opening in 2005. The front runner at this point seems to be an HK G36 variant called the XM8 which will also a component to the OICW debacle. Another contender is the SIG550. If either is adopted, does that mean there is a chance that semi automatic civilian versions will become legal for purchase? The G36K is said to be able to eat 25,000 rounds of ammunition without cleaning and not experience a single jam, which is the biggest, and exaggerated, gripe against the M16A2.

HKG36

SIG550
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
The G36K is said to be able to eat 25,000 rounds of ammunition without cleaning and not experience a single jam, which is the biggest, and exaggerated, gripe against the M16A2.
That sure sounds familiar. Not flaming or trolling, but I find it kinda hard to believe.

Sounds like DoD wants another rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,105 Posts
Powderman said:
That sure sounds familiar. Not flaming or trolling, but I find it kinda hard to believe.
I agree.

Sounds like an unbelievable number of average rounds before a part fails let alone just before you need to clean it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
Sounds like it's time to re-invent the wheel (again).

The solution is 40-50 years old:

M-14

FN/FAL

Don't we ever learn?

MAG-63
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
If either is adopted, does that mean there is a chance that semi automatic civilian versions will become legal for purchase?
Maybe. In today's climate it is hard to tell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
Aren't there any American designs in the running? :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Where are the American rifles?

It would almost seem that Americans don’t make rifles anymore. There isn’t a single American company submitting a design for the next rifle trials. Not one. You think the DOD would learn from the nightmare that came with adopting the berretta 92fs, a move that almost no one agrees with. You can’t arm our military with foreign firearms. It just doesn’t work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,699 Posts
VB, You said rifle trials are said to be opening. Who said? Anyone in authority to actually open rifle trials or someone on the internet?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
If this is true about the M16 I'd think that it would be the perfect opportunity for Ruger to put some work into the Mini-14 and give it a go. It's basic design has been proven and all that would be needed is some modifications to fit whatever specifications the government has. Stay safe, Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,699 Posts
What improvement would the mini 14 give over a 16A2 or A3 or an M4?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the AR 15 will be the last rifle based on the military rifle we will be permitted to own. The DoD is going to make their issue arm too expensive and too regulated to own. Not to mention that there is no American company in the running, so parts will be made over seas and imported into Georgia, South Carolina, OR whereever else and assembled into "GUNS". They will stick on an import ban, or some other BS rule to prevent our ownership and that will be that. Anyone with delusions of owning our new "assault rifle" better wake up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
I think the military should go back to some rendition of the m14/m1 platform. It worked, had plenty of fire power, and can be made to be extremely acurate. Plus its been around long enough that people know how to make it better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,699 Posts
NJKimberSS said:
I think the military should go back to some rendition of the m14/m1 platform. It worked, had plenty of fire power, and can be made to be extremely acurate. Plus its been around long enough that people know how to make it better.
The AR isn't exactly new. It has been around since the very early 60's? What is that, forty plus years? I think they know how to make them now.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
BillD said:
The AR isn't exactly new. It has been around since the very early 60's? What is that, forty plus years? I think they know how to make them now.;)
Im aware of that...but IF they are thinking of replacing it...that means you have to chose SOMETHING ELSE...thereby...the M14/M1A platform. Which IMO is a better platform for the 2 legged variaty of varmints since it uses a more potent round.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,699 Posts
The M14 vs the AR16 argument has been done to death. The M-14 will be issued in very small quantities as a squad marksman weapon but the overall caliber used by the armed forces will be smaller than 7.62 X 51, your opinion not withstanding. Besides, I have yet to see where any branch of the armed forces has said they want to replace the AR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
It seems a shame to change from the 16 platform when currently its biggest liablility is the 5.56 projectile. The cost to re-equip will be enormous and sticking to that same small round is ridiculous. Oh well the powers that be know better than we do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I don’t think the 5.56 is a liability. It's an excellent anti personnel round with more benefits than deficiencies. The cartridge has a high level of lethality and creates some nasty injuries, while the 7.62 NATO has more knockdown power, but overall produces less severe wounds. Both are one shot killers with the correct shot placement

Vietnam proved that 7.62 NATO platform is "too powerful" and heavy for infantry duty. You really think army regulars are going to patrol well and chase Al Qaeda around with an M14 strapped to their back? I think not.

I have a bushmaster M4 and an HK91, and in all honesty I would grab the M4 first in a hostile situation because I can move quicker, and shoot faster and more accurately with it. This is doubly true in an urban environment. In a more open area with some distance between me and the enemy, then I'd grab the HK91.

JRJ, I'm pretty sure you're right. The AR15 is mostly likely the last military rifle we evil civilians will probably own. HK is supposed to be building a plant in the USA. Maybe then the G36 will be legal to buy since it wont be an imported weapon anymore.
Remember when we use to live an American and there was this thing called the 2nd Amendment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
VB, congrats on your Bushmaster, I guess you finally bit the bullet and jumped to the dark side. Now for the dot sight!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
variablebinary said:


JRJ, I'm pretty sure you're right. The AR15 is mostly likely the last military rifle we evil civilians will probably own. HK is supposed to be building a plant in the USA. Maybe then the G36 will be legal to buy since it wont be an imported weapon anymore.
Remember when we use to live an American and there was this thing called the 2nd Amendment.
I disagree HK is building a plant near ft benning georgia that means they won't have to go thru the import ban.

and when the AWB expires the fun will really start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
QUOTE:

"Vietnam proved that 7.62 NATO platform is "too powerful" and heavy for infantry duty. You really think army regulars are going to patrol well and chase Al Qaeda around with an M14 strapped to their back? I think not."

No flame, but I couldn't disagree more.

Do we really need to take another step backwards?
(as in the M-4 carbine)

What happened to teaching (and stressing) long-range marksmanship with an effective weapon?

If we are worried that today's soldier (who is larger, faster, and stronger than his WWII/Korean War brethren) cannot handle a weapon the size, weight, and power of the M-14, then why not just arm the infantry with MP-5s?

After all, the German, Soviet, and Chinese infantries were quite effective when using their MP-38/40 and PPSH subguns

(especially when battling Allied forces armed with .30 caliber rifles)

Weren't they?

The M-4 is a compromise weapon.

Without a new 5.56 round to make-up for its velocity-loss and poor lethality, it is a weapon only suitable for urban warfare.

Are we really providing the guys in the field with the most reliable and effective tools to accomplish their mission?

MAG-63
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top