1911Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I visited the FP-10 site last night and saw a reference to the Cleenbore SACS cleaning system. This uses a CO2 cylinder to blast a scotch brite-tipped cotton wad (with just a cuple drops of FP-10) down the cylinder. Claims to be more effective than bore brushes and mops, without the risk of chemical damage and brush and rod damage. About $75 would be needed to set up for 2 calibers and extra wads.

If this had not been on the FP-10 site I probably would not have taken a second look, but I have been impressed with FP-10 in my pistols and MPC seems like a stand-up company. Anyone tried this? Any opinions? Should Santa know about this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
I was given one of the SACS systems by my cousin last July or August(cant remember)to field test on my M15A2 Armalite and Beretta 92FS.
George Fennell has had extensive experience with the SACS and I discussed it with him in detail a few months ago.So he knows what he is talking about.
I have the 7.62,9mm,5.56 and .40 cal adapters and I have tried them on all the calibers but the .40.
I use whatever Co2 cartridge I can find...Crossman usually...and can get several cleanings with each cartridge.
The sytem works excellent and really shines when your outdoors needing a quick bore cleaning,or to remove contamination or an obstruction such as dirt,sand or water from the bore.
The straw tube adapter is great for blowing dirt and dust from the weapon and is really nice for blowing FP-10 into the pins,sear etc..
It will clean the barrel extremely well,but you may need to use several passes with the SACS cleaning wad to make a real nasty bore shine.I usually blow each wad through at least twice or until they start looking real nasty before using a new one.This cuts back on the expense somewhat.
Inspect the bore between passes and stop when all the dark spots are gone.Your done and the bore is clean.
Setup a paper bag to fire the SACS wads into,that way they are easier to find.
I primarilly use the SACS for cleaning while out in the field or between stages or target shooting etc..
However it does nothing for cleaning the carbon from the chamber of a rifle like the AR15 and G3/cetme.So that area will need some attention by other methods for complete cleaning.
Ive tried the SACS with Hoppe's #9 and FP-10,the FP-10 just flat out works better with the SACS as they recommend.
In my opinion the SACS does an excellent job and is well worth the money.Especially if your a high volume shooter or outdoors alot.
Its a handy system in a very compact setup.
If CleenBore comes up with a AR15 buttstock kit Ive got to have one to store away in my A2.
I still use my Dewey rods and bore brush/chamber brush once home.But Im a clean freak an will spend hours detail cleaning my weapons before putting them up..
For use out in the field or otherwise the SACS flat out performs and is darn fast when you need a clean bore.
It actually makes cleaning more fun and alot easier especially outdoors since the weapon does not have to be diassembled.
And yes it removes most all the powder/carbon fouling from the bore in just a couple minutes.
hth
Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
http://www.schuemann.com/
Barrel Cleaning Information
My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels.
I agree with Mr Schuemann, I take care of chambers.
Bores only when exposed to mud, drenched to do rain or snow and the like. Agree about the chemicals and "wonder" products. Personally feel instead of buying every new wonder product that comes down the pike, shooter should learn proper technique with proper tools. Learning to inspect and maintain properly condusive to enviroment is important. Be it miles from a hunting camp, In Iraq, or in a training school.

Just me, I guess I think the monies better spent for ammo, and training...that with proper inspect and maintenance will keep one alive. I have good steel rods and the Otis kit ( Kit and Kaboodle) that has served me well for ...well whenever the K&K came out, the GI steel rod is as old as I, and I'm a '55 model. Old T shirts and a good technique I'll stick with. $75 buys me ammo,/components thank you very much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Mr.Schuemann has made some darn good points,especially about mixing solvents.
Find a solvent you like and stick with it.
But I cant and never have/will let my firearms be put away without bore cleaning.
The old rule of "never let the sun set on a dirty weapon" was pounded into my head as a boy and later in the academy.It has served me well for 25 years.
So not cleaning the bores I disagree on even though he is an expert in the field.
I have seen many bores and crowns damaged by folks using steel rods,especially sectional rods.
I would not recommend to anyone that one should be used.
The only cleaning rods I will even let close to my firearms is coated Dewey rods and I use bore guides on the rifles.
But I also like cleaning my weapons and the tools it takes.So anything that works to aid in the task and works safely is worth the money to me.

Im not affiliated with Cleenbore in any way,my posts are taken from my personal experience and findings and is my opinion.
Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
For a quick clean in the field or on the range I use this product. However, it doesn't seem to work as well as claimed. After cleaning one of my 45s with the system I put some solvent on a patch and ran it thruogh the bore and let it sit for 5 minutes. I then brushed the bore and it took about 6 clean patches to get the barrel clean. The same with my glocks, the barrel appears clean but there is still fouling left in it. Still as I said for a quick clean I will continue to use it. When it comes to customer service it's hard to beat Chris, who is a "good old boy" and likes to talk about his Kimber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Thanks to all those kind enough to give us product feedback.

In most cases, Cleenbore SACS will give a clean, polished barrel in two passes, especially with prolonged use.

We do acknowledge that in first use situations it can take several (sometimes six) passes to remove heavy fouling, and this may have been the situation my learned friend from Minnesota encountered. However, any barrel that has to be soaked with solvent than have six solvent patches passed thorugh after SACS must have had significant fouling, and would certainly require fewer passes of a SACS wad than if using only patches.

Cleenbore now has a special solution called ADACS to prep heavily fouled barrels. ADACS was developed for military use to remove fouling in 5 inch naval guns, and has been modified for Small Arms- it is potent stuff folks, and will be available to the civilian market this month. The use of ADACS has been incorporated into new SACS instructions posted on our site see :

http://www.cleenbore.com/sacs_images.asp

SACS of course is designed to give a fast clean in the field or on the range, and to maintain accuracy, especially with high round counts.

As Raymond says, many years of ear bashing cause me to shudder at the thought of a firearm bore not being cleaned. Primarily, if acids and residue from primers and powder are not removed corrosion and pitting will commence rapidly.

My opinion for what it is worth is get some FP-10 down the bore using SACS, this will clean and neutralise the nasties, leave a thin uniform film of protectant and keep the bore in tip top condition.

Repeated use of FP-10 will mean a lesser tendency for build up in the rest of the firearm, which can then be removed with minimal brushing on working parts, and a cloth on most other surfaces.

Good shooting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
The last thing I want to do is start an aurgument on this forum, so this will be my last post on this issue. I am a lifetime shooter and after 22 years in the military I know a thing or two about cleaning guns. The guns I mentioned in my last post had fewer then 150 rounds through them since their last cleaning, so there was no build up of residue in them. When I bought my kit they were touting mil tec as the do all and end all lube. Now if you believe the firepower people (and I do), mil tec is garbage. I now have to go back and clean 10 or so guns I have put in storage for the winter to get the mil tec off them. As I had said earlier, I will continue to use their system on the range and in the field. At home it's the good old fashioned solvent, bore brush and clean patches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
No offence meant...I know this guy ;)

Minnesota Oldie,

I don't think Mr. Goldie meant any offence or disrespect at all with his tactful comments. He was merely sighting some possibilities, at least that's the way I percieved it.

You certainly sound like you have the experiance and know your stuff on firearms maintenance and cleaning. No one's doubting that, I'm sure. It's as all things are; there is a reason for everything, and no exception to your's either. I'm sure there's a logical (but possibly hidden) reason for what you experianced, that has nothing to do with your expertise.

For example, when I returned from the SHOT Show in February, I brought back one of the SACS kits with me that was supplied to me by Mr. Goldie. I worked with that bugger for a couple of hours and just couldnt get it to perform as expected. I soon put it away and forgot about it, going back to my Dewey Rods.

Then about 2 weeks later, after picking up the SACS kit again and browsing over it, I realized something. In the buzz of business at the SHOT Show, I picked up the wrong attachment (.40 cal) instead of the .45ACP. Talk about your wasted CO2 and time.

I contacted Mr. Goldie and he immediately sent me the .45 adapter and wads. Man, what a difference. The world was then right as rain and the SACS kits worked great. Not that this was your problem at all, but case in point, I would have never known or used the SACS kit again, except that something kept telling me that there was something just not quite right. Call it a "feeling". I'm glad that that feeling drew me back to the bench that day.

Rods are fine, for those that prefer them, as each to his own in every way. But the SACS kits cut that cleaning time waaaaay down for me, and many others.

Also, for everyones information; Cleenbore USA and MPC are totally independant and have no cross ownership or corporate ties. We are afilliated in business in a common bond, which is working as a team to provide the shooters with the best possible products available. Cleenbore purchases every pack of FP-10 from us and has ordered and received over 50,000 to date with another blanket order of 100,000 packets for the upcoming first quarter of 2004.

My point is, that we don't just give them to Mr. Goldie as an enhancement to his product and advertisement for us. He buys them from us. He came to MPC, 3 months ago, after his, and other's, conclusive testing proved that FP-10 was far superior than the product that he was using at the time. But, coincidently, the FP-10 enhances the SACS system, and the SACS system does the same for the FP-10 in expanding the concept and actuality of weapons maintenance even further.

I've had great success with the SACS, and have all of the caliber attachments available including the 12 Ga. adapter and wads.

Maybe try this, MO....
Now that you have all of those barrels cleaned to your satisfaction, treat the bores of them all with FP-10. The FP-10 will keep the fouling and copper to an absolute minimum and prevent build-up. Then give the 'ol SACS kit a whirl again and let me know if there's any difference.

Don't abandon your post, soldier....your comments and opinions are valued, as all are, (except Dr. Cohen)...LOL...just kidding Greg. You can rant the TW25B stuff all you want. 'Tis the freedom of speech and the right to protect it from tyranny with our guns, that makes us who and what we are today....OOOORAH....UP THE USA!!

Best regards,
George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
387 Posts
Anything that does away with bore brushes is worth a look, IMHO. Cleaning the chamber would still require a brush on occasion (less so if FP-10 is used) but it's still an improvement.

Not cleaning a bore? Not even a patch with CLP? Egads, man! I couldn't handle that...I would have to think that corrosion would still be a problem. Condensation would still be an issue regardless of the weather.

Lack of maintenance is just as bad as improper maintenance in my opinion.

Just my thoughts :)
Clay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Dear CH

Nice to meet you.

I am glad you are open to the concept of brushless cleaning! If yoou wish to test SACS please let me know, my details are on www.cleenbore.com .

SACS in addition to being a fast and effective bore cleaner does some cleaning on the chamber, if you insert the wad into the adaptor there is always a section protruding which is near the diameter of the chamber, as the wad is oversize for the bore by at least 20%.

By inserting a tipped cleaning wad soaked with FP-10 into the adaptor, leaving a section protruding, then inserting into the chamber with a 'waggling' from side to side motion it will do some basic chamber cleaning.

And to my noble and learned friend from Minnesota I mean no disrespect, I was merely thinking out loud on the symptoms you reported, but concur on the use of Militec-1. We as a company moved to FP-10 after extensive testing due to various concerns and considerations which I will not go into here. If you would like the Militec you received in the kit replaced FOC please do not hesitate to contact me.

And to my noble and learned friend George 'Gorgeous George' Fennel I thank you for your attempts to explain to the outside world my infamous persona, renowned for having the subtlety of a sledgehammer , and as I retire to my SACS cave I laud thee and bid thee farewell until next time.

Good Shooting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
387 Posts
Mr. Goldie,

Thank you for the information! I try to be as open minded as possible without letting in a draft ;) .

I, and I'm sure everyone else, appreciates your participation here.

Best regards,

Clay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Well said Clay.
I wish more folks from the firearms related industry would be willing to come on the forums to address concerns and share information with us,the consumers,like George and Mr. Goldie has.
I appreciate it.
Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I said I wouldn't post anything further about this system, but I feel I must eat a little crow. I ordered some of the firepower lube and used it with the system on a colt that had many rounds of wolf through it. I used a plain plug soaked with FP and let it set for 5 minutes. I then shot a cleaner plug through and it came out BLACK. I sent anotherone through and it was slightly discolered. I then used a patch with bore cleaner and let it set 5 minutes again. I then brushed to bore and put through a dry patch. It came out wet but clean. The FP lube is what the Sacs system needed. I HATE CROW.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
M.O.,
Your right,I tried it with Hoppe's #9 and some other solvents/clp's and it works best with FP-10 for me too.
Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
Proof in the putting...

Minnesota Oldie and Raymond,

That's what I call a fair and balanced approach. Not only did we find the "glitch" to your problem (inferior cleaners) but you both established conclusively that the FP-10 is (and always has been) the ticket.

Thanks guys, for your objective and open-minded approach.

:rock:

Best regards,
George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
George, I have to nit pick you about something. The saying is the proof is in the PUDDING, refering to an English Christmas or other holiday pudding. Besides it tastes better then crow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Well thanks to all for the posts.

I just wanted to add an addendum to what I said before, Cleenbore as a company prides itself on constant testing and development, including at times changes to product makeup, hence the change to FP-10. We don't mind changing product makeup, as long as it is a positive improvement, which the move to FP-10 was.

We ourselves found the FP-10 and the SACS kits were the optimum combination for routine cleaning of all the products we tested ( and we tested eveything we could find, including bacon grease! (kidding:D ). I don't want to trash any other products, it is just we found the FP-10 to work best.

As George also states Muscle Products and Cleenbore are separate entities, we have only one thing in common- we like each other's products.

But, one thing a tip if you like, try the FP-10 precision lubrication syringe to inject the FP-10 directly into the wad after it is inserted into the SACS adaptor, works even better, and less mess, less waste.

Anyway, to all once again thank you for the feedback, we can't improve if we don't know there is a concern- and we always listen to our customers.

Brian Goldie
President and CEO
Cleenbore Inc.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top