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Cocked and locked in pocket??

1856 Views 14 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  PigPen
As everyone here suggested to me, I have found a Mustang Poccketlite. An instate dealer has one, but won't get my hands on it until the next gun show on Aug. 12th. Looking at the photos of it, I noticed that the Mustang does not have the grip saftey on it as the 1911 has. Using a pocket holster, would you trust carrying this model cocked and locked? or just a round in the chamber uncocked? BTW, he has two, both used, stainless is $565 and the blue is $465. These prices sound reasonable?
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Personally, I would not carry cocked and locked in a pocket, nor would I carry hammer down on a live round.
I'll disagree with Shane, imagine that!
If it's not cocked and locked, all you've got is an expensive paper weight. A good holster that covers the trigger gaurd is all you should need.

If you don't feel comfortable carrying the Mustang C&L, take a look at the Pony (it has about an 8 mile, 12 pound trigger pull).

Billy Ray
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One more thing, those prices look good. Personally, I would go with stainless since, as a pocket gun, you'll probably get a fair amount of sweat, mousture, etc. on it.

Billy Ray
I would think a IWB holster would be a better way to go IMHO. I've never tried pocket carry, so I'm not much of an "expert". FWIW, I bought my used SS Mustang from my local gunshop for $400 with 4 factory mags OTD. It is currently undergoing sight replacement surgery.
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Hmmm... At $500-600 for a 380 Pocket Gun, there's better choices...

The NAA Guardian 380 is one of the better ones, although I try to avoid 380's these days.

A Colt Pocket 9 would be nice, although mags can be hard to find, so that took me to Kahr.

They now have a "Covert" model Polymer 9 & 40 (9 being my choice) that provides about the same round count as the Pocketlite, and more puch in a package that is not much larger. It's definately within the "Back Pocket" size, and for some, may fit front pockets too...

I don't think I would be inclined to carry Hammer Down in or out of a pocket, especially near my "Best Buddy", and C1 doesn't thrill me either in a pocket, snagging hammers can be a b1tc*.

Anyway, if you do get a Pocket Colt, check out Scott MacDougall ( http://www.colt380.com ) they're the best with them...


[This message has been edited by jaydee (edited 07-27-2001).]
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I wouldn't. I was in a large gun store last week. They were talking about one of their regulars who shot accidently his right leg with his 45. It shattered his leg. The key word was "accidently." Accidents do happen. Now this guy might have been careless too, I don't know. But human nature is such that we do have brain farts from time to time. This guy will have to spend a long time in rehabilitation. After that it gets worse. He will have to spend the rest of his spouse's life justifying his need to own those "nasty guns." I had an AD of a Bauer 25 over 21 years ago. My wife doesn't fight my interest but she also hasn't forgot the AD.

If I were to carry my 1911 I would carry it with an empty chamber, except in military conditions. But my preference would be a .357 revolver (model 66) first, followed by a DA pistol or Glock.
Pocket carry with any handgun should always involve a pocket holster - both to make the draw angle consistant and to protect the trigger guard area from entry of "foreign objects".

Carrying a gun should be a well thought out and rehersed act. Regardless of brand or action type, it will cause you problems if you reach into your pocket and find out your keys, pocketknife, etc, has found it's way inside the trigger guard and comes out in your hand with the gun.

Thus, if you use a pocket holster - the Mustang Pocketlite is perfectly safe - the firing pin lock takes care of all situations, unless you leave the trigger guard "unguarded" AND the manual safety has been brushed off.

Negligent discharges are just that - negligence in equipment selection, technique and training. There is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". A round fired unintentionally is a screwup of some kind.

If you think you are unsafe with a single action design - YOU most likely are! But that has nothing to do with the design - and everything to do with your level of preparation before you started carrying it.

The advantage of the Mustang is it works exactly the same as our 1911s, it can be safed before "reholstering", and it's better trigger allows more precise shot placement - which is important in pocket calibers.

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits and Patent Infringements"
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Why would it be dangerous to carry any 1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down? The firing pin is not long enough to reach the primer on its own and I cannot see how it could under any circumstance other than the hammer hitting it with full force. Maybe if one slammed the gun muzzle first onto a hard surface, but how often does that happen? And if you carry a series 80, that would never happen. I guess the only danger I see is when one must lower the hammer initially on the live round. Now to switch gears, saw an interesting thing last night on one of those police chase shows, an officer was wrestling with a suspect. His sidearm (I couldn't make out what it was) was unholstered and ground into the earth during the fight and was recovered by the suspect, who turned it on the officer! Click, Click, Click. The gun was jammed with dirt and couldn't go off. This gave the officer enough time to pull his backup weapon and subdue the criminal. Guess his primary was not a workhorse 1911. Sorry for the long post, but I just love chatting on this BBS!!
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Originally posted by emmo:
Why would it be dangerous to carry any 1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down?

I guess the only danger I see is when one must lower the hammer initially on the live round.
Bingo!!! Also, the hammer can get snagged on something, drawn back partially, and release, and possibly have enough enertia to strike a primer in a S70 type action.

The gun could also fall on the hammer, and cause the hammer to move forward.

Having the hammer locked back is much safer, and in almost 100 years of use, the design has been flawless. C1 carry is the SAFEST way of carrying the 1911 ready to deploy against a threat. C3 is the ONLY other acceptable method of carry, C2 is EXTREMELY unsafe!
I will also add that the Half Cock notch is not a reliable safety, and should NEVER be regarded as a method for resting the hammer on a chambered round.

There have been cases documented of the hammer snagging, and lifting up off Half-Cock, and releasing, and falling all the way down to the Firing Pin, and discharging the weapon.

Comcerning pocket carry of a Mustang I do it often. Yes, I do it cocked and locked. There are a few things to consider with doing so.

First and formost is the thumb safety. Every Mustang, and 380 Government I have, or have held has a very stiff thumb safety. In a pocket pistol this is a very good thing. Check yours out, if it is loose this should be checked out by a good smith, and possibly replaced. A smooth function is okay, but it should be a deliberate action to release the safety.

Second, is use a pocket holster as several people have mentioned. This is not something to think lightly of. Buy quality, not necessarily expensive. My preference in pocket holsters is Uncle Mikes, and avoid the Galco. The Uncle Mikes is nylon which has good mositure barrier properties, plus it has a rough band around it to keep the holster in your pocket. The Galco holster is smooth and comes out of my pocket with the pistol, this is not a good thing. I have a Ted Blocker for my revolver and it works well also. So look for the better holster makers. I have seen that Kramer makes a pocket holster, but have not tried it.

Third, what pocket are you considering. I prefer to carry in coat pocket, though I have carried in a front pants pocket. In pants you want to think slacks rather than jeans. Slacks have more give and present a smother front, and pockets with wider openings. Jeans print everything, plus the pockets can be a bit snug making a draw difficult. I do not recommend back pockets for carry, they are looser and tend to bind, plus some are not cut good enough for a wallet let a lone a gun. Not to mention after sitting in your gun your pants and body will show an impression.

A regular holster is a good idea. Concealco makes a very good one, as does Kramer. I do use a Bianchi clip on at times, again avoid Galco as the clips do not hold very well.

Last, practice (unloaded naturally) reaching for, drawing your pistol, and releasing the safety. This is not as simple as it would seem. Plus it will let you know if your ideas will work the way you think they will. After doing this a lot then add dry firing. Practice is what has convinced my that a coat pocket is a better idea for me. Plus it gave me an idea of how my wardrobe needed to change for using a pants pocket.

I hope this helps.
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Thanks for the info, Jaydee. What you said makes sense. So if the hammer is down and it receives a blow, it still transferres movement to the firing pin? I thought that the hammer rested on the firing pin stop instead of the firing pin itself. Is it maybe like one of those desk-top toys where the 5 ball bearings hang together but the only two that move are the ones on the ends as they transfer power through the middle balls to each other? (Ha! I never thought I'd find a use for my high school physics class)
Originally posted by KenH:
I wouldn't. I was in a large gun store last week. They were talking about one of their regulars who shot accidently his right leg with his 45. It shattered his leg. The key word was "accidently."

One of the ranges around here had a similar thing. A guy carried hammer down on live round, he had been showing his gun, went to reholster and lower the hammer as he reholstered. When people are showing off, they'll push the grip safety, pull the trigger and lower the hammer at the same time with their primary hand. He slipped, shot himself in the leg.
Supposedly, the range doesn't want any more of their employee's carrying a 1911 because of this.

If I were to carry my 1911 I would carry it with an empty chamber, except in military conditions. But my preference would be a .357 revolver (model 66) first, followed by a DA pistol or Glock.
I tell people either chamber empty (hammer back or down, doesn't matter) or cocked & locked. When they ask me how to lower the hammer, I tell them the gun's not designed to be carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Also a note, a glock has a 5 pound trigger pull. There is nothing (besides appearance) seperating the Glock from the 1911 in most regards. The trigger safety isn't really much of a safety, and the 1911 has the grip safety. In a way, teh Glock is cocked & unlocked (not that there's anything wrong with Glock's, but by the same token, the 1911 is as safe, if not safer.)
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I always enjoy these cocked & Locked threads.

Notice the story of the guy who shot himself while replacing his pistol violated the 1st (Cardinal) rule of firearm safety when he pointed the barrel of his 1911 toward his leg which I assume was something that he did not intend to shoot. Beyond that he used just plain bad judgement to drop the hammer on a loaded round without pointing the firearm in a safe direction. Not to mention that unless you intend to carry hammer down on a live round (Condition 2) which is generally unsound, there is never a need to lower the hammer on a live round.

Yeah, I like cocked & Locked carry but I still have a lot of respect for the firearm and try to constantly practice safe firearm handling.

A few years ago there was a policeman in my small town who accidently fired his service pistol (sorry I do not know what kind) while in his apartment. He said that he was showing it to a fellow officer at the time. It was a big event; made the papers; an investigation followed and the officer cleared of wrong doing. In less than thirty days he did the same damn thing again. Bullet went through the apartment floor both times but no one hurt. I am not making this up! The second time the chief felt differently about letting him walk around armed.

Smoe folks just can't be trusted with firearms. Carelessness, absent mindedness, what ever.

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